Legislature(2011 - 2012)Anch LIO Rm 220

09/01/2011 01:00 PM House FISHERIES


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Audio Topic
01:02:50 PM Start
01:03:40 PM Pacific Halibut Fisheries: Catch Sharing Plan for Guided Sports and Commercial Fisheries in Alaska
04:51:34 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Overview Hearing on Pacific Halibut Management TELECONFERENCED
-AK Dept of Fish & Game; Stefanie Mooreland,
Federal Fisheries Coordinator
-Nat'l Oceanic & Atmospheric Admin, NMFS;
Glenn Merrill, Ass't. Reg. Admin/Sustainable Fsh.
Rachel Baker, Fisheries Mgt. Specialist
-North Pacific Management Council; Chris Oliver,
Executive Director
-AK Charter Assoc.; Richard Yamada, Board Member
-United Fishermen of AK; Mark Vinsel, Exec. Dir.
-SE AK Guides Org.; Heath Hilyard, Exec. Dir.
-Halibut Coalition; Kathy Hansen
-CATCH Project; Jeff Salzer, Project Director
-Closing Comments
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                                                                            
                       Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                        
                       September 1, 2011                                                                                        
                           1:02 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Steve Thompson, Chair                                                                                            
Representative Craig Johnson, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Alan Austerman                                                                                                   
Representative Scott Kawasaki (via teleconference)                                                                              
Representative Bob Miller                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bob Herron                                                                                                       
Representative Lance Pruitt                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kyle Johansen                                                                                                    
Representative Charisse Millett (via teleconference)                                                                            
Representative Curt Olson (via teleconference)                                                                                  
Representative Bill Stoltze                                                                                                     
Representative Bill Thomas (via teleconference)                                                                                 
Representative Peggy Wilson (via teleconference)                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
OVERVIEW HEARING ON PACIFIC HALIBUT MANAGEMENT, PACIFIC HALIBUT                                                                 
FISHERIES: CATCH SHARING PLAN FOR GUIDED SPORTS AND COMMERCIAL                                                                  
FISHERIES IN ALASKA                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
STEFANIE MORELAND, Federal Fisheries Coordinator                                                                                
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided an  overview of the state's role in                                                             
halibut management.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
GLENN MERRILL, Assistant Regional Administrator                                                                                 
for Sustainable Fisheries                                                                                                       
National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS)                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  during  the  discussion of  the                                                             
overview on the federal Halibut Catch Sharing Plan (CSP).                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DAVID WITHERELL, Deputy Director                                                                                                
North Pacific Fishery Management Council (NPFMC)                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  during  the  discussion of  the                                                             
overview on the federal Halibut Catch Sharing Plan (CSP).                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD YAMADA, Board Member                                                                                                    
Alaska Charter Association (ACA)                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  during  the  discussion of  the                                                             
overview on the federal Halibut Catch Sharing Plan.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARK VINSEL, Executive Director                                                                                             
United Fishermen of Alaska                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  during  the  discussion of  the                                                             
Halibut Catch Sharing Plan presentation.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HEATH HILYARD, Executive Director                                                                                               
Southeast Alaska Guides Organization (SEAGO)                                                                                    
Sitka, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  during  the  discussion of  the                                                             
overview on the federal Halibut Catch Sharing Plan (CSP).                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
KATHY HANSEN, Executive Director                                                                                                
Southeast Alaska Fishermen's Alliance;                                                                                          
Board Member, Halibut Coalition                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  during  the  discussion of  the                                                             
Halibut Catch Sharing Program (CSP).                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JEFF SALZER, Project Director                                                                                                   
Catch Accountability Through Compensated Halibut (CATCH Project)                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified during  the presentation  on the                                                             
Catch Sharing Plan (CSP).                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:02:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  STEVE  THOMPSON  called the  House  Special  Committee  on                                                             
Fisheries  meeting  to  order  at   1:02  p.m.    Representatives                                                               
Austerman,  Johnson, Miller,  Kawasaki (via  teleconference), and                                                               
Thompson were present  at the call to order.   Also in attendance                                                               
were  Representatives  Johansen,  Millett  (via  teleconference),                                                               
Olson    (via     teleconference),    Stoltze,     Thomas    (via                                                               
teleconference), and P. Wilson (via teleconference).                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
APacific Halibut Fisheries: Catch Sharing Plan for Guided Sports                                                                
and Commercial Fisheries in Alaska                                                                                              
Pacific Halibut Fisheries: Catch Sharing Plan for Guided Sports                                                             
               and Commercial Fisheries in Alaska                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:03:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THOMPSON  announced that the  only order of  business would                                                               
be an  overview of  the Pacific  Halibut Fisheries  catch sharing                                                               
plan (CSP) for guided sports  and commercial fisheries in Alaska.                                                               
He informed  the committee that the  CSP is in the  final comment                                                               
period and public comments will close  on September 6.  The North                                                               
Pacific Fisheries Management Council  (NPFMC) has recommended CSP                                                               
for  the Area  2C  and  Area 3A  and  specifies  how exactly  the                                                               
harvest  will be  allocated between  commercial and  charter user                                                               
groups.  He then reviewed  those entities that will be testifying                                                               
today as  they provide a clear  understanding of CSP and  a brief                                                               
history of  the fishery, how  the CSP will protect  the resource,                                                               
and the  impact of the  CSP will have  on communities as  well as                                                               
the charter industry.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:05:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STEFANIE MORELAND,  Federal Fisheries Coordinator, Office  of the                                                               
Commissioner, Alaska Department of Fish  & Game (ADF&G), began by                                                               
informing  the committee  that she  manages a  small staff  whose                                                               
primary responsibility is to support  saving Alaska's seat on the                                                               
NPFMC.  She then turned attention  to the state's role in halibut                                                               
management.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:07:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MORELAND  informed  the  committee  that  the  International                                                               
Pacific  Halibut Commission  was  established in  1923 through  a                                                               
bilateral agreement between the United  States and Canada for the                                                               
conservation,  health, and  management  of halibut  in the  North                                                               
Pacific and  Bering Sea.  The  NPFMC has the authority  under the                                                               
halibut  act   to  develop  additional  regulations,   but  those                                                               
regulations can't be in  conflict with IPHC-approved regulations.                                                               
She pointed out that the  state doesn't hold management authority                                                               
for   halibut,  although   the   state   does  have   significant                                                               
investments  in  biological  sampling,  licensing  programs,  and                                                               
harvest  data  collection  and   analysis  for  the  recreational                                                               
halibut fisheries.  The ADF&G's  primary contributions to halibut                                                               
management include  data collection, analysis,  harvest estimates                                                               
for  use by  the IPHC  and NPFMC.   Ms.  Moreland specified  that                                                               
ADF&G provides  the subsistence harvest and  recreational harvest                                                               
estimates to  IPHC for its  stock assessment process and  for use                                                               
by  [NPFMC] in  its  decision making.    Additionally, the  ADF&G                                                               
commissioner is 1 of 11 voting  seats on the NPFMC.  Furthermore,                                                               
ADF&G  provides  policy input  through  the  record building  and                                                               
through  making formal  motions at  the NPFMC.   Moreover,  ADF&G                                                               
strives to balance the interest  of various user groups dependent                                                               
upon  fisheries  resources  of   Alaska.    The  department  also                                                               
provides  technical review  and supplemental  analysis for  NPFMC                                                               
process and  extensive input  with regard to  halibut due  to the                                                               
department's  role  in  providing  data.    The  department  also                                                               
reviews and provides comment on  the proposed federal rules as is                                                               
the  case with  CSP.   For subsistence  harvest estimates,  ADF&G                                                               
surveys  the   Subsistence  Halibut   Recreational  Certification                                                               
(SHRC)  card  holders,  which  are  those  who  are  eligible  to                                                               
participate  in  a subsistence  fishery.    When conducting  that                                                               
survey,  ADF&G's  response rates  are  typically  higher than  60                                                               
percent.    Therefore,  the  department  has  a  high  degree  of                                                               
confidence  in  the estimates  it  provides  for the  subsistence                                                               
fishery.   She noted that there  is data available from  the 2009                                                               
estimates, which  is the  latest data available.   The  2009 data                                                               
shows  that about  45,000  halibut were  harvested.   "The  total                                                               
represents about  1.2 percent  of total  removal in  Alaska," she                                                               
stated.   She then  provided the committee  with a  few estimates                                                               
generated  from ADF&G  programs.   The  department also  provides                                                               
unguided  angler  harvest  estimates,  which  are  based  on  the                                                               
department's  statewide harvest  survey  program.   Creel  survey                                                               
data and sampling at the docks  are used to estimate weights from                                                               
which  the  department  is  to  provide  final  unguided  harvest                                                               
estimates and project  current year harvests for use  in the IPHC                                                               
process based on  recent trends.  The  department provides guided                                                               
harvest estimate based  on statewide harvest survey  data, but it                                                               
isn't available  until the fall  following the year in  which the                                                               
data is being collected.   Again, projections are used to provide                                                               
the IPHC  stock estimates for the  current year.  She  noted that                                                               
adjustments are made  to the statewide harvest  survey data based                                                               
on  information  from  the  charter  saltwater  logbook  program.                                                               
Although  the  department's  logbook  program  is  a  fundamental                                                               
source of data  for the charter sector, it's used  for many other                                                               
purposes as well.   In fact, much of the data  that will be heard                                                               
as part  of the presentation  from the National  Marine Fisheries                                                               
Service  (NMFS) is  from  ADF&G's logbook  program.   Still,  the                                                               
[North Pacific  Fisheries Management]  Council is leaning  on the                                                               
statewide harvest survey estimates as its official estimate.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:13:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MORELAND  directed attention a  slide relating the  timing of                                                               
all the information ADF&G provides.   In the fall ADF&G finalizes                                                               
information  from the  statewide harvest  survey and  is able  to                                                               
provide biomass estimates for the  previous year.  The department                                                               
also has processed current year creel  data by the fall.  Logbook                                                               
data that  represents a  large portion of  the fishing  season is                                                               
entered through July  30.  The current year logbook  data is used                                                               
to project a  full year of expected removals in  order to provide                                                               
information to the IPHC stock assessment.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:13:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MORELAND  explained that  under the  proposed federal  CSP in                                                               
addition  to  providing  harvest  estimates ADF&G  will  need  to                                                               
provide   projections  of   harvests  under   various  management                                                               
measures that  could be adopted for  Area 2C and 3A.   Therefore,                                                               
if  the department  will have  to provide  past and  current year                                                               
estimates, it will  have to project total  removals under various                                                               
management  measures.   Within  the  CSP is  a  new program,  the                                                               
guided  angler  fish (GAF),  that  provides  the opportunity  for                                                               
charter  halibut   permit  holders  to  transfer   IFQ  from  the                                                               
commercial  sector  to  the  charter sector  to  use  as  angling                                                               
opportunities  for  their clients.    Although  the fish  may  be                                                               
harvested in the charter sector,  the deduction would actually be                                                               
logged in  the commercial  sector's allocation.   She  noted that                                                               
the  aforementioned would  be tracked  in the  saltwater logbook.                                                               
The  department, she  continued,  would also  be responsible  for                                                               
removing  the  GAF component  from  the  estimated total  charter                                                               
harvest estimates.   She noted that the GAF will  impact the work                                                               
ADF&G does in  terms of the harvest estimates for  the IPHC stock                                                               
assessment  process.   Ms. Moreland  informed the  committee that                                                               
currently  the  department is  reviewing  the  proposed rule  and                                                               
preparing  comments.    Although   the  advertised  deadline  for                                                               
comment  on the  program  is  September 6,  she  opined that  the                                                               
committee will hear news regarding that deadline from the NMFS.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:16:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN  related  his  understanding  that  Ms.                                                               
Moreland's job  is to  work on the  recommendations of  the ADF&G                                                               
commissioner during a NPFMC meeting.   During the NPFMC meetings,                                                               
he  inquired  as to  the  portion  of information  gathering  and                                                               
decision making that's federal versus state.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MORELAND reminded  the committee  that the  State of  Alaska                                                               
holds only  one of  the eleven  voting seats on  the NPFMC.   She                                                               
noted that  there are  other Alaskans  [on NPFMC]  representing a                                                               
variety  of interests.   The  ADF&G commissioner  participates by                                                               
being  able  to shed  light  on  information that's  provided  on                                                               
analysis,  draw info  from testimony,  and  engage in  discussion                                                               
with  other council  members.   The  discussion is  open and  the                                                               
process is  public.   Therefore, the weight  of the  state varies                                                               
dramatically depending upon the issue.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:18:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN  pointed  out   that  not  all  of  the                                                               
information  NPFMC  members  use  is  federal  information.    He                                                               
reiterated his  question regarding  the impact  the state  has on                                                               
this issue  with regard to  the final  decisions that are  up for                                                               
review by NPFMC.   More specifically, he inquired as  to how much                                                               
ADF&G  is  involved  in  the  [CSP] in  terms  of  the  work  and                                                               
recommendations the department has provided to NPFMC.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MORELAND  suggested that  it  would  be  easier for  her  to                                                               
provide  the committee  the kinds  of  contributions ADF&G  makes                                                               
after NPFMC  comes forward and  provides the history of  the plan                                                               
and its decisions.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:21:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN  recalled  his  history  in  fisheries,                                                               
particularly  the halibut  fishery, with  a prior  administration                                                               
when  fingers  were  pointed  at   the  state  in  terms  of  any                                                               
precipitating issues.   Therefore, Representative  Austerman said                                                               
he wanted to  ensure there is clarity with regard  to the history                                                               
of these issues.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MORELAND acknowledged  that the  state was  involved as  the                                                               
issue  developed and  NPFMC took  final  action on  the issue  in                                                               
October 2008.   Certainly,  much has changed  since 2008  and the                                                               
state has  provided input into  the process.  Moreover,  much has                                                               
been learned  from the logbook  program, which has matured.   She                                                               
noted that  there have  been improvements  in the  data gathering                                                               
for the charter fleet through the logbook program.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:22:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON inquired  as  to  how consistent  ADF&G's                                                               
projections are on the logbook  program in terms of the estimates                                                               
presented and upon which decisions are made.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MORELAND  said that it  would depend  upon the purpose.   She                                                               
informed the  committee that  there have been  a few  papers that                                                               
have  been  provided to  the  NPFMC  comparing statewide  harvest                                                               
survey estimates, which  is the official estimate  used by NPFMC,                                                               
to logbooks.   She related  her understanding that  the statewide                                                               
harvest survey estimates  and the logbook data  are converging in                                                               
Area 2C.   Although there have  been differences in Area  3A, the                                                               
differences  have varied  from  year-to-year,  and therefore  she                                                               
would  have  to  review  the percentage  difference  in  each  to                                                               
provide  more  specific  information.    Ms.  Moreland  said  the                                                               
department expects  NPFMC to continue  to monitor  the comparison                                                               
[of the statewide harvest survey  estimates and the logbook data]                                                               
for  which  the  department  provides information.    In  further                                                               
response to Representative Johnson,  Ms. Moreland recalled from a                                                               
three-year comparison that  in Area 3A the logbook  data has been                                                               
lower than  the statewide harvest  survey estimate.   She offered                                                               
to pull the data.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:24:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON   related  his  understanding   that  Ms.                                                               
Moreland testified  that NPFMC decisions  were made based  on the                                                               
estimates.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MORELAND   clarified  that   there  are   several  different                                                               
estimates,  including the  annual  estimate that  feeds into  the                                                               
stock  assessment process  and  long-range projections  dependent                                                               
upon  the IPHC  project  for available  and exploitable  biomass.                                                               
The   [NPFMC]  decision   was   made  based   on   both  of   the                                                               
aforementioned  information.     The  charter   harvest  estimate                                                               
projections were based on observations  in the fishery as well as                                                               
levels  of effort.   Factors  that impact  effort are  changes in                                                               
demand, economy  overall, and management measures.   Ms. Moreland                                                               
said that to better answer  Representative Johnson's question she                                                               
would need  to know whether  it's specific to  the aforementioned                                                               
estimates and the timeframe.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:26:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  asked if  decisions  are  being made  on                                                               
estimates that are higher than  the actual catch specified on the                                                               
sport fishing  logbooks.  He  opined that it doesn't  matter what                                                               
estimates  are  used.   The  question  is  whether the  catch  is                                                               
overestimated and  decisions made on that  overestimation only to                                                               
later  discover that  the  actual catch  listed  in the  logbooks                                                               
reports lower catch.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. MORELAND  answered that the  department has a high  degree of                                                               
confidence in  its estimates.   However,  it's very  difficult to                                                               
correctly  provide long-range  projections.   She noted  that the                                                               
department has  a high degree  of confidence with  actual removal                                                               
estimates.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:27:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  reiterated  his understanding  that  Ms.                                                               
Moreland testified  that the logbook  data reports  lower numbers                                                               
than the department's estimates.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MORELAND  expressed  the  need to  review  the  logbook  and                                                               
statewide harvest survey  data and provide that  information at a                                                               
later time.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:28:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON stated that the  [accuracy] of the data is                                                               
critical to the decisions of NPFMC.   He said that if the NPFMC's                                                               
decisions   are  not   based  on   actual  numbers   or  it   has                                                               
overestimated  the  figures, its  decisions  are  being based  on                                                               
inaccurate figures which could translate  into allocations to one                                                               
of the  two groups.   He offered his  belief that being  off even                                                               
one to two  percent likely would translates into  big dollars for                                                               
one  of  the groups.    He  reiterated  the importance  of  using                                                               
accurate  information and  added  that  using actual  information                                                               
would be even better.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. MORELAND agreed to provide the data to the committee.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:29:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said that  the accuracy of information is                                                               
critical.  The International  Pacific Halibut Commission's (IPHC)                                                               
appointments  are federal  appointments and  appointees will  not                                                               
"answer to us" in  any way shape or form.   Additionally, 7 of 11                                                               
of  the  NPFMC's  appointments  are  federal.    He  related  his                                                               
understanding  that   most  of  the  state's   role  is  strictly                                                               
informational.   He asked  whether that is  the state's  role and                                                               
secondly,  whether  the  state  has  enough  focus  on  providing                                                               
information or  if the department  has strategies to  address the                                                               
decisions made by  the two groups.  He wondered  whether the flow                                                               
of information to  the federal agencies will increase  and if any                                                               
additional  requests have  been made  for research  funding.   He                                                               
expressed  interest  in  the   department's  reactions  to  these                                                               
decisions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MORELAND  deferred to  Mr. Swanton  to best  answer questions                                                               
about  the  program.  The  ADF&G  does  provide  information  and                                                               
collaborate with the National Marine  Fisheries Service (NMFS) on                                                               
a  technical level  to  support informed  decision  making.   She                                                               
pointed  out  the  analysis  on  halibut  size,  provided  public                                                               
information on  the management measure  to impose a  37-inch size                                                               
limit in  2C.  The  ADF&G was part  of decision.   The department                                                               
offered  alternative methodology  it  believed could  be used  to                                                               
meet objectives defined  by the council and brought  the paper to                                                               
the NPMFC.   The NPMFC supported the approach and  wrote a letter                                                               
to  the  agency requesting  it  be  incorporated into  the  catch                                                               
sharing plan  final rule.   She acknowledged it  wasn't reflected                                                               
in the proposed rule but  illustrates supplemental work the ADF&G                                                               
performs  to  provide  the  best  available  information  to  the                                                               
council process.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:32:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN  opined that  this reminds him  of timber                                                               
situation.   The  state provided  the most  accurate science  but                                                               
federal government reduced  allowable harvest by a  tenth of what                                                               
the science supported.  He  related his sense of frustration that                                                               
information is provided but the state  does not have any input in                                                               
the decision.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:33:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI, with respect  to the accuracy of harvest                                                               
data and  projections, asked for estimates  and projections based                                                               
on  harvest  for  each  of  the  categories  mentioned  including                                                               
subsistence, sport  unguided and the  sport charter.   He pointed                                                               
out  it seems  the  sport  charter group  has  specific rules  to                                                               
retain data but the response rate  of 60 percent allows for error                                                               
with  subsistence harvest,  and it  seems difficult  to determine                                                               
efficacy with respect to the sport unguided harvest.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MORELAND  responded  she didn't  prepare  anything  on  data                                                               
accuracy,  but offered  to provide  the information  later.   She                                                               
pointed  out   that  the   saltwater  logbook   program  requires                                                               
mandatory  reporting.   Thus, the  retained  halibut reported  in                                                               
logbook data  provides census and  is not an estimate.   However,                                                               
information from the subsistence  survey or the statewide harvest                                                               
survey  only provides  estimates.   The department  has extensive                                                               
information available and on the confidence in the information.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:35:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI  referred  to the  new  capture  program                                                               
slides  and the  new  state  obligation would  have  to be  state                                                               
harvest data.   He related this information will  be important to                                                               
implementation  of  catch  share  program.   He  inquired  as  to                                                               
whether  any  federal  dollars  are available  to  the  state  to                                                               
administer catch share program.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. MORELAND  answered that currently  the state  doesn't receive                                                               
federal  funding for  the current  biological  sampling and  data                                                               
collection  programs that  will support  the catch  sharing plan.                                                               
She acknowledged the importance of  this since projections are at                                                               
the center of the catch share  plan.  She indicated members would                                                               
see  more how  the information  is used  to implement  management                                                               
measures.  The  ADF&G's analysts have been working  over the past                                                               
couple  of  years with  the  NPFMC's  scientific and  statistical                                                               
committee on  this issue.   The analysts receive feedback  on how                                                               
to proceed to  ensure transparency in the process  and for review                                                               
of methodologies.   The department  plans to continue to  use the                                                               
NPFMC's science committee  for that type of input  and for public                                                               
review of the process.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:37:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  recalled an earlier slide  mentioned the                                                               
state's  primary role  with respect  to  subsistence harvest  and                                                               
recreation  harvest  estimates.     He  inquired  as  to  whether                                                               
commercial data was also included  and how the commercial data is                                                               
integrated with the state's data  on subsistence and recreational                                                               
fishery estimates.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. MORELAND answered that the  commercial fleet directed halibut                                                               
fishery is managed  under the IFQ program,  which reports through                                                               
e-landings that's  an inner agency  reporting system.   The NMFS,                                                               
The  IPHC,  and the  ADF&G  are  all part  of  the  system.   She                                                               
characterized it as  basically fish ticket data  which is tracked                                                               
in real time since the  commercial data is being deducted against                                                               
individual  quota  units.  The NPFMC  and  IPHC  have  management                                                               
authority  over  the  commercial   fleet.    The  commercial  and                                                               
recreational data intersect with the new "GAF" program.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:39:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI  commented  that  she  works  integrated                                                               
between the  state and federal  NMFS, inquired as to  whether the                                                               
catch  share program  (CSP)  serves a  conservation  need and  to                                                               
identify  the focus  and  view of  the program  in  terms of  its                                                               
impact on commercial, private, and public sector.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MORELAND   answered  that  the  department   is  working  on                                                               
reviewing  the  CSP.   In  October  2008,  the IPHC  changed  its                                                               
methodology  from  closed  area   assessments  to  a  coast  wide                                                               
assessment  with  an  area  apportionment.   The  ADF&G  now  has                                                               
experience with the assessments.   She related the ADF&G has seen                                                               
declines in Area 2C and is  beginning to see declines in Area 3A.                                                               
She  said she  was unsure  of  what 2012  would look  like.   The                                                               
current guided harvest limit is  a system created as a benchmark,                                                               
which is now  being referred to more as an  allocation for status                                                               
quo the  guideline harvest  level for the  charter sector  and is                                                               
what  the IPHC  has used  to deduct  charter fishery  removal for                                                               
purpose  of their  stock assessment.   The  guided harvest  level                                                               
doesn't  have  associated  management   measures  to  ensure  the                                                               
charter  fleet stays  within  it.   Since 2004,  in  Area 2C  the                                                               
charter harvest has  exceed the guideline harvest  levels in each                                                               
year.   That  overage isn't  accounted for  in IPHC's  accounting                                                               
methodology  because the  guided harvest  level is  in place  for                                                               
status quo.   The IPHC  presumes the domestic  agency allocations                                                               
for  the fleet  and presumes  the  bodies will  keep within  that                                                               
limit.   Thus,  the IPHC  has  only deducted  the guided  harvest                                                               
limit amount.  It could be  argued a conservation issue exists in                                                               
Area 2C due to  the overage and due to the  accounting.  In 2007,                                                               
a similar issue arose in Area  3A, when the charter sector was at                                                               
the peak of  its harvest it exceeded the  guideline harvest limit                                                               
as well.   The  rest of  CSP has been  focused on  allocation and                                                               
equity and  what's equitable during  times of low  abundance such                                                               
as now, where the exploitable biomass  is fairly low.  During the                                                               
times of low abundance the  IPHC recommends conservation measures                                                               
to be split between or shared  between the charter sector and the                                                               
commercial sector and that has led to the CSP's rule.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:43:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON inquired  as to  whether the  GAF program                                                               
will  become a  mini IFQ  that  results in  bidding wars  between                                                               
charter  operators and  if  it will  become  more efficient  than                                                               
actually commercial fishing.  Additionally,  he asked whether the                                                               
GAF  program  will allow  selling  or  trading un-fished  IFQ  to                                                               
charters.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MORELAND responded  that  the GAF  program  would work  will                                                               
require a willing buyer and  willing seller for transfers between                                                               
a  commercial IFQ  holder and  a charter  halibut permit  program                                                               
permit  holder.  In an  instance  in  which the  charter  halibut                                                               
permit holder  doesn't use GAF  he/she has acquired,  the program                                                               
provides for transfer  of the GAF back to  the commercial sector.                                                               
She suggested  that the NMFS could  speak more to the  timing and                                                               
provisions.    She  said  an  opportunity exists  for  it  to  be                                                               
transferred and she  thought it could be  transferred again until                                                               
it's harvested.   In terms of price, the  department doesn't have                                                               
much information on  what might be available for  transfer to GAF                                                               
and whether  the commercial  IFQ holder would  want to  hold onto                                                               
the fish  or if it would  be available to supplement  for charter                                                               
management at  these low  times and  charter operators  are under                                                               
extreme constraints.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:46:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHANSEN   inquired  as   to  when   the  British                                                               
Columbia's (BC) information integrates  into the information from                                                               
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MORELAND  answered that BC  and the State of  Washington fall                                                               
in the  Lower 48 range of  pacific halibut.  That  information is                                                               
all  considered  in IPHC's  negotiations.    She elaborated  that                                                               
three  commissioners from  BC and  three  commissioners from  the                                                               
U.S. make recommendations  on catch limits.   The department does                                                               
not  review BC's  annual estimates  or information  in the  NPFMC                                                               
arena.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:47:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHANSEN  commented   that  theoretically  Alaska                                                               
could  present  set  of  facts  and data  and  BC  could  provide                                                               
separate information that's  different and it is  left to federal                                                               
government  to  determine.    He   inquired  as  to  whether  the                                                               
department coordinates  the information for  consistency purposes                                                               
between BC and the U.S.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MORELAND responded  that the  ADF&G provides  information to                                                               
the IPHS and  attends the meetings to  present harvest estimates.                                                               
Thus, the  department benefits  from observing  the presentations                                                               
by the BC so it has  access to information and does interact with                                                               
IPHC.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:50:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON stressed  that  this is  a discussion  of                                                               
allocating  money.    The  state  has a  resource  that  will  be                                                               
harvested. He inquired  as to where the economics  come into play                                                               
and  return  on investment  either  via  commercial fishermen  or                                                               
charter fishermen.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. MORELAND answered that the NPFMC  and NMFS will speak to that                                                               
during an overview of the  decision-making process and will speak                                                               
to the economic component.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:50:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON inquired as to  the source of the agency's                                                               
economic  information.   He was  unaware of  any mass  surveys on                                                               
economic impact  of commercial or  sport fishing.  At  what point                                                               
does the state say a pound  of halibut sports caught is worth "x"                                                               
and a pound  of commercial caught halibut is worth  "y" and let's                                                               
balance the two  or not.  The biomass must  take priority but the                                                               
discussion  is  about  allocating  the  existing  resource.    He                                                               
reiterated  his   interest  in  when  the   economics  enter  the                                                               
equation.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MORELAND responded  the agencies  will speak  to this.   The                                                               
NPFMC has  an obligation  to consider the  data.   The discussion                                                               
has largely  been qualitative  and the  economic effects  will be                                                               
discussed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:52:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  THOMPSON introduced  joint  presenters  from the  National                                                               
Marine  Fisheries Service  (NMFS) and  the North  Pacific Fishery                                                               
Management  Council  (NPFMC)  during   the  Overview  Hearing  on                                                               
Pacific Halibut Management.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:53:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GLENN MERRILL,  Assistant Regional Administrator  for Sustainable                                                               
Fisheries,  asked  to address  a  question  with respect  to  the                                                               
public  comment period.    As  many people  know  the agency  has                                                               
received  extensive commentary  from  the public  to  ask for  an                                                               
extension.   Today, U.S. Department of  Commerce Secretary Locke,                                                               
in conjunction  with Dr. Jane  Lubchenco, the  new administrator,                                                               
announced  that the  public comment  period will  be extended  an                                                               
additional 15  days through September  21, 2011 in order  for the                                                               
public to comment on the catch  sharing plan (CSP).  He stated he                                                               
would provide an overview of  halibut management, an overview and                                                               
development of the  CSP, and outline the  public comment process.                                                               
The  IPHC   has  the  ultimate  authority   for  Pacific  halibut                                                               
regulations.  Under  the convention between Canada  and the U.S.,                                                               
the IPHC  has authority to  implement management  measures deemed                                                               
necessary for  the conservation of  the Pacific  halibut resource                                                               
throughout  its range  in both  countries.   The primary  goal of                                                               
IHPC is  to hold annual  meetings that consider  stock assessment                                                               
information  gathered by  scientists  and additional  information                                                               
such as  that provided  by the  ADF&G.   The NPFMC  also provides                                                               
domestic input into  NMFS and IPHC, but NPFMC  doesn't have legal                                                               
authority  to  supersede  or recommend  measures  that  are  less                                                               
restrictive  than those  adopted by  the IPHC.   He  related that                                                               
NMFS is  the implementing body for  regulations developed through                                                               
the  council  and  regulations recommended  by  IPHC,  which  are                                                               
subsequently accepted  by the Secretaries  of State  and Commerce                                                               
as  required under  the convention  with Canada  with respect  to                                                               
pacific  halibut.   The ADF&G's  primary role  as an  information                                                               
gathering body was previously discussed.   The main focus will be                                                               
to discuss  management areas  in Southeast  Alaska, Area  2C, and                                                               
Southcentral Alaska, Area 3A.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:56:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID  WITHERELL,   Deputy  Director,  North   Pacific  Fisheries                                                               
Management  Council   (NPFMC),  following  his   handout  labeled                                                               
"Halibut Catch  Sharing Plan", explained that  NPFMC is comprised                                                               
of 11  voting council members,  including 6 members  from Alaska,                                                               
of  which  5 are  nominated  by  the  governor, approved  by  the                                                               
Secretary  of Commerce  and the  ADF&G's Commissioner  [slide 5].                                                               
The NPFMC also  consists of two fishing  representatives from the                                                               
State  of Washington,  the State  Washington's Commissioner,  the                                                               
Oregon Fisheries Commissioner, and  a representative of the NMFS,                                                               
Alaska  region.   Additionally,  other  agencies have  non-voting                                                               
representatives.   The NPFMC develops  plans and  regulations for                                                               
U.S. fisheries  off the coast of  Alaska [slide 6].   In addition                                                               
to making  allocation decisions for the  pacific halibut fishery,                                                               
NPFMC  also  makes  conservation  and  allocation  decisions  for                                                               
offshore federal fisheries such as  ground fish.  The NPFMC works                                                               
in  cooperation with  Alaska to  manage crab  and scallops.   The                                                               
NPFMC meets  five times  a year,  jointly with  industry advisory                                                               
panel and the  scientific and statistical committees.   The NPFMC                                                               
has   numerous  ad   hoc  committees   that  provide   advice  in                                                               
development of regulations and serve  as a focal point for public                                                               
input  in the  development of  elements and  options.   The NPFMC                                                               
takes  considerable oral  and written  public  testimony at  each                                                               
meeting.   The normal  process to  develop regulations,  which he                                                               
characterized as a  bottom up process that takes  ideas come from                                                               
stakeholders.  The council uses  a committee process to flesh out                                                               
elements  and options  that are  deliberated on  by the  advisory                                                               
panel  and   council  and  are   fully  evaluated  in   terms  of                                                               
environmental  and economic  analysis that  goes through  several                                                               
iterations  of  deliberations,   scientific  review,  and  public                                                               
comment.  When ripe and deemed  ready for action, NPFMC will make                                                               
a  final vote  and  its deliberations  are made  in  public.   He                                                               
described  the process  as  transparent.   Once  action has  been                                                               
taken it  is forwarded to the  NMFS and to the  federal register.                                                               
He  addressed  the  CSP  specifically,  noting  the  council  has                                                               
addressed  this   at  10  council  meetings,   held  7  committee                                                               
meetings,  and  has  taken hundreds  of  comments  during  public                                                               
testimony.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:00:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WITHERELL  provided  a brief  history  of  NPFMC  activities                                                               
relative to  the pacific  halibut charter fleet  [slides 7  & 8].                                                               
In  1991, the  NPFMC adopted  an IFQ  program for  the commercial                                                               
Pacific halibut  fishery that  was implemented  in 1995.   During                                                               
much  of  the 1990s  the  future  quota share  holders  expressed                                                               
concern about the growing guided  sport fishery and requested the                                                               
council consider ways  to control catch by the  guided angler set                                                               
and a  means to allocate  and apportion the  quota in a  fair and                                                               
equitable manner.  In 1999  and 2001, NPFMC developed a guideline                                                               
harvest level  (GHL) system,  which is  a stair-step  system that                                                               
sets forward a  fair and equitable apportionment of  the quota to                                                               
the  commercial  fishery  and  the guided  sport  fishery.    The                                                               
allocations  were based  on total  catch allowed  for the  guided                                                               
sport fishery in  Area 3A and Area 2C.   As the guideline harvest                                                               
level was  exceeded after 2003 in  Area 2C the council  needed to                                                               
establish regulations  to control the catch  within the guideline                                                               
harvest  level.   The NPFMC  considered  different catch  limits,                                                               
size  limits,  and all  possible  limits.    In 2001,  the  NPFMC                                                               
adopted an IFQ  program to incorporate the guided  fleet into the                                                               
commercial IFQ program.  That  proposal was withdrawn in 2005 and                                                               
rescinded.   The NPFMC explored  and reviewed other ways  to more                                                               
specifically control  and allocate  the Pacific  halibut resource                                                               
among  the  commercial and  guided  sport  fishery sector.    One                                                               
committee  developed  elements,  options,  and  alternatives  for                                                               
setting a  moratorium for  new entrants  into the  charter fleet,                                                               
which   is  known   as  the   charter  halibut   permit  program.                                                               
Additionally,   the   NPFMC   specifically  reviewed   a   direct                                                               
apportionment  of the  available  catch through  a catch  sharing                                                               
plan.   In 2007,  the council adopted  the permit  program, which                                                               
was  implemented in  2011.   In October  2008, NPFMC  adopted the                                                               
catch sharing plan  (CSP).  The NPFMC hopes to  implement the CSP                                                               
as early as next year.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:03:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WITHERELL acknowledged  a number of questions  have arisen as                                                               
to the  reasons the CSP is  necessary [slide 8].   He pointed out                                                               
that the  Pacific halibut is  a limited and valuable  resource so                                                               
any allocation decisions made are  very contentious.  The pacific                                                               
halibut abundance fluctuates from year  to year so depending upon                                                               
total available quota the effects  differ between users depending                                                               
on the  abundance of the  resource.   The NPFMC's GHL  system was                                                               
developed  as  a  stair  system  based  on  biomass,  which  only                                                               
provided  a guideline  since it  did not  trigger any  regulatory                                                               
measures preseason  for the charter  fleet to limit its  catch to                                                               
the allocation.  Thus, the  NPFMC was informed when the guideline                                                               
harvest level (GHL)  exceeded the allocations.   The council then                                                               
underwent  the   slow  federal  regulatory  process   to  develop                                                               
regulations  over a  year  or two,  including  a full  scientific                                                               
evaluation of  the measures.   He characterized the process  as a                                                               
delayed  feedback  process.   He  acknowledged  that the  federal                                                               
system  could not  catch up.   With  respect to  the question  of                                                               
economics, he  also acknowledged  that it  has been  difficult to                                                               
address economic data of these  fisheries.  He related that while                                                               
some   information  is   available,   it  is   not  possible   to                                                               
quantitatively estimate the impact  of regulations on communities                                                               
and  the  variety  of  charter  businesses.   He  agreed  that  a                                                               
mechanism wasn't  present to  allow the  charter fleet  to obtain                                                               
more halibut if  needed.  Substantial discussion  was held during                                                               
the development of the IFQ program  to indicate if the system was                                                               
market-based and  halibut was  worth more  to the  charter fleet,                                                               
the  charter fleet  could simply  buy or  lease it.   Thus,  this                                                               
component, the GAF component, was  brought into the CSP.  Lastly,                                                               
he  noted that  the  limited entry  program,  the moratorium  for                                                               
charter  vessels, was  never anticipated  to limit  the catch  of                                                               
Pacific halibut.   The excess  capacity in the fleet  and NPFMC's                                                               
information  indicates that  it  will not  serve  to control  the                                                               
overall catch.   This has  led to the council  determination that                                                               
the CSP was  needed and provides the rationale  to understand the                                                               
NPFMC's actions.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:08:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MERRILL  referred to  the  graph  that provides  context  of                                                               
available halibut  resources between  commercial and  sport users                                                               
and shows overall decrease in biomass  [slide 9].  He stated that                                                               
the  blue line  on  the  bottom of  the  graph  shows an  overall                                                               
decrease  in  the  biomass  available  by  use  for  charter  and                                                               
commercial operators.   As Ms. Moreland stated  earlier, a number                                                               
of changes  were made in  the methodologies  used by the  IPHC to                                                               
estimate  stocks,  migration  models,  stock  assessment  models,                                                               
which  has  led  to  a more  precautionary  management  approach.                                                               
Overall  halibut removals  in both  Areas 3A  and 2C  are largely                                                               
commercial  although  over  the  years  the  removals  have  been                                                               
substantial  [slide 10].   The  second  graph indicates  wastage,                                                               
bycatch, and overall the largest  amounts relate to commercial or                                                               
sport harvest.   As previously  mentioned, two  guideline harvest                                                               
levels  (GHLs)were set,  one  for Area  3A and  one  for Area  2C                                                               
[slides  11].    In  2007,  the  guideline  harvest  levels  were                                                               
substantially  exceeded  in  Area  3A.    Overall  the  guideline                                                               
harvest level  (GHL) which is a  limit based on abundance  in the                                                               
area,  has  not  been  exceed   by  the  charter  harvest  fleet.                                                               
However,  since 2003  the overall  commercial harvests  have been                                                               
reduced by 37 percent.   The chart indicates the charter harvests                                                               
are  very  close  with  the   charter  halibut  limit  since  the                                                               
halibut/sablefish IFQ program is a  tight constraint on the total                                                               
harvest by the commercial fleet [slide 12].                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL discussed the charter  harvest in Area 2C [slide 13].                                                               
He explained that Ms. Moreland  mentioned the charter harvest has                                                               
exceeded the guideline level in  every year since implementation,                                                               
including a reduction overall in the  GHL as the biomass has also                                                               
decreased  as well.    The  GHL has  been  exceeded, even  though                                                               
during this  time period  a number  of management  decisions were                                                               
implemented either  by IPHC, NMFS,  or ADF&G's  emergency orders.                                                               
The measures to  try to constrain the charter  harvest within the                                                               
levels included attempts  to limit retention by  fishers or crew,                                                               
imposing a  one fish bag limit,  or limiting catch to  a two fish                                                               
limit and restricting one fish to a  size limit of 36 inches.  At                                                               
the same  time, the commercial  harvest in Area 2C  has decreased                                                               
substantially.    He reported  that  since  2003, the  commercial                                                               
harvest is approximately 73 percent lower.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:12:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MERRILL turned  to  the catch  sharing  plan (CSP)  overview                                                               
[slide  15].   He explained  that the  CSP was  developed by  the                                                               
council and  recommends it establish  allocations of  halibut for                                                               
the   charter   and   commercial  fishing   sectors   recognizing                                                               
historical  levels of  participation  between  the two  entities.                                                               
The  CSP provides  for specific  management harvest  restrictions                                                               
through  the  annual  IPHC  process in  order  to  constrain  the                                                               
charter  fleet  within  the  allocation limit.    It  includes  a                                                               
component for  the guided angler  fish (GAF) that allows  for the                                                               
transfer of  commercial IFQ  to the charter  sector.   The matrix                                                               
walks  through the  decision-making  process  to determine  which                                                               
harvest measure would  be applicable [slide 16].   Using the 2011                                                               
data for  Area 3A  the combined catch  limit between  the charter                                                               
and  commercial users  totaled approximately  18 million  pounds,                                                               
which  would  place  the  total   at  Tier  2.    The  commercial                                                               
allocation  would have  been set  at 86  percent and  the charter                                                               
allocation set  at 14  percent.   The management  efforts outline                                                               
the goal to  maintain a charter harvest within a  range from 10.5                                                               
percent  to  17.5   percent.    He  explained   that  during  the                                                               
development of the CSP the  council recognized variability in the                                                               
estimations of  charter harvest.  It  tried to ensure a  range of                                                               
harvest  and a  corresponding management  measure to  address the                                                               
range.  If  the projected harvest from ADF&G  data indicated that                                                               
the charter  harvest fell  within its  allocation range  it would                                                               
result in  a one fish bag  limit.  However, if  the total charter                                                               
harvest exceeded  its guideline  range a  maximum limit  would be                                                               
imposed  on the  one fish  bag limit.   However,  if the  charter                                                               
harvest was projected  to fall below the allocation  range a less                                                               
restrictive management  measure would be  taken.  He  stated that                                                               
the  CSP  creates   a  default  estimation  in   terms  of  which                                                               
management measure should be used  based on projections of future                                                               
harvests to tailor the recommendations  for management limits and                                                               
to recognize angler interest may  change.  He indicated a similar                                                               
table was prepared for Area 2C [slide 17].                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MERRILL explained  the guided  angler  fish (GAF)  component                                                               
[slide 18].   He  characterized this as  a one-way  transfer from                                                               
the commercial  fishery to the  charter fishery.  Any  unused GAF                                                               
within the last two weeks  of the commercial fishery would return                                                               
automatically  to  the IFQ  holder.    An electronic  and  guided                                                               
reporting requirement for  the GAF was developed  by working with                                                               
ADF&G  to  incorporate data  needs  in  the department's  logbook                                                               
program.   The  IFQ holder,  who would  release the  fish to  the                                                               
charter fleet, would be responsible  for paying any cost recovery                                                               
fees, which is  also a requirement under  the existing commercial                                                               
program.   The CSP has  other components including  a restriction                                                               
of filleting  the halibut in  a way that  prevents identification                                                               
of  the  fish  size,  prohibitions on  retention  of  halibut  by                                                               
operators,  guides,  and  crew   on  charter  fisheries.    These                                                               
prohibitions  currently  exist in  Southeast  Alaska  but not  in                                                               
Southcentral  Alaska  [slide  19].    Additionally,  prohibitions                                                               
restrict commercial  and charter halibut fishing  and charter and                                                               
subsistence  halibut fishing  from the  same vessel  on the  same                                                               
day.   He pointed  out these  efforts are  to ensure  proper data                                                               
accounting between  the various user  groups.  He  reiterated the                                                               
public  comment period  will be  extended  through September  21,                                                               
2011.   There  are a  number  of ways  in which  comments can  be                                                               
submitted,  such  as  electronically,  via mail,  fax,  and  hand                                                               
delivery [slide 20].   He provided a timeline  that describes how                                                               
to  track what  comes next  [slide 21].   The  IPHC will  hold an                                                               
interim meeting in  late November.  Ideally,  a publication would                                                               
be prepared  on the CSP final  rule by mid-December.   He related                                                               
the goal  is to have  the CSP  be available for  consideration by                                                               
the IPHC at its annual meeting  in late January in Anchorage.  He                                                               
acknowledged  this represents  a tight  turn around  and will  be                                                               
challenging to  meet.  He  said so long  as the CSP  is available                                                               
and  the  IPHC  makes   specific  recommendations  on  management                                                               
measures  that affect  the  charter fleet  by  January, the  IPHC                                                               
could implement the CSP by regulatory process in March 2012.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:19:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON recalled  comments that obtaining economic                                                               
information is  difficult.   He suggested  that the  Institute of                                                               
Social and  Economic Research (ISER) could  identify the economic                                                               
impact.    He  asked  whether  the  price  of  halibut  has  been                                                               
calculated into the equation.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WITHERELL answered yes, that  is part of the quantitative and                                                               
qualitative analysis.   He related  that as Ms.  Moreland pointed                                                               
out earlier,  the council  has written  analysis of  the expected                                                               
and anticipated effects of the CSP.   He offered that the council                                                               
through its  public record  and testimony gives  a clear  idea of                                                               
the  impacts  on  users  which  provides  more  than  economist's                                                               
numbers and projected effects.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:21:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON inquired as to  what has happened to price                                                               
of halibut in the past five years due to overfishing.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. WITHERELL said generally when  abundance goes down, the price                                                               
increases.  He offered to provide specific prices.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  predicted in theory that  by reducing the                                                               
commercial  fishing  fleet's  ability  to catch  fish  the  price                                                               
increase could benefit the biomass  and the stakeholders stay the                                                               
same.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. WITHERELL  answered that  the biomass  has been  declining as                                                               
has the catch limit in Area 2C.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON related  that if  the biomass  is reduced                                                               
and the  commercial catch  is reduced,  the price  would increase                                                               
and  the commercial  fleet  would remain  whole  and the  biomass                                                               
would also benefit.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. WITHERELL  related his understanding that  the basic question                                                               
is how the  change in price relative to biomass  is affecting the                                                               
"bottom line" for the commercial fleet.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:22:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked what  changes have happened  to the                                                               
price of charter tickets in the last five years.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. WITHERELL answered that the  numbers for the estimated prices                                                               
are discussed  in the  analysis.   He suggested  other testifiers                                                               
would provide a more precise answer.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:23:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THOMPSON referred  to the chart on page 7  and said that in                                                               
Area 2C the  commercial limit is 73 percent lower  than it was in                                                               
2003 and the catch is down.   He offered his belief the limit has                                                               
had a substantial impact on prices.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WITHERELL answered  that an  economist would  say a  reduced                                                               
supply is a  major factor in increased prices.   He was unsure if                                                               
that provides 100 percent of the explanation.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:23:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   THOMPSON  said   he  reviewed   the   harvest  which   is                                                               
substantially lower catch  than in 2003-2006.  He  inquired as to                                                               
whether  any   recovery  of  biomass  resulted   from  the  limit                                                               
reductions.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MERRILL  responded  that  a number  of  factors  affect  the                                                               
halibut resource,  which are  better addressed by  the IPHC.   He                                                               
offered   his  belief   that  generally   speaking  the   overall                                                               
exploitable  biomass, or  the larger  sized  fish have  decreased                                                               
substantially.  He  said anecdotally a number  of charter halibut                                                               
operators and  commercial have reported small  fish being caught.                                                               
Although he acknowledged reductions  have occurred in the overall                                                               
catch limits,  changes within the  halibut biomass  contribute to                                                               
biomass reduction and are not  completely understood.  He related                                                               
that as a  management agency IPHC will attempt to  limit catch as                                                               
much  possible to  take control  overall harvest  of the  halibut                                                               
resource.     He  reiterated  changes  in   the  biomass,  better                                                               
information to  identify the biomass  reductions, and  changes in                                                               
the harvest  strategy have helped IPHC  to try to keep  the catch                                                               
as  low as  reasonable  and address  concerns  about the  reduced                                                               
biomass.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:26:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THOMPSON  related with respect  to the reduction  in catch,                                                               
that the  commercial fishermen took out  loans but now face  a 73                                                               
percent reduction  in their allowable catch.   Similarly, halibut                                                               
charter fishing  operators have built  lodges or  purchased boats                                                               
and are  now decimated.   He characterized the  current situation                                                               
as an economic disaster on both industries.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL  responded he  would be unwise  to predict  what will                                                               
happen to  the halibut resource  in the  future.  He  agreed many                                                               
changes are happening.  He  suggested better information would be                                                               
available  in November  2011 when  the survey  data from  IPHC is                                                               
available.  The data may  indicate whether some of the management                                                               
measures are beginning to have an  effect in terms of the overall                                                               
biomass.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:27:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON   said  he   finds  it   disturbing  that                                                               
decisions  are  being  made  on predictions  he  now  learns  are                                                               
difficult to make.  He inquired as to whether the  CSP will be an                                                               
in-season  management tool  or if  it will  be something  that is                                                               
retrospectively viewed for the next year in terms of decisions.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL answered that the  CSP is not an in-season management                                                               
tool, but would  be management tool implemented  through the IPHC                                                               
process  in January  2012.   He explained  that the  agency would                                                               
rely on  the combined catch  limits determined by the  IPHC based                                                               
on survey  data and other  fishery data they collect,  which will                                                               
tell  what the  total  available  biomass is  and  which tier  of                                                               
management  measures for  charter  harvest  and commercial  catch                                                               
limit for  the year.   The measures  that will be  implemented in                                                               
terms  of  restricting  the  overall harvest  will  be  based  on                                                               
projections  of future  angler demand  and angler  harvest within                                                               
each  of the  areas  in  Southcentral or  Southeast  Alaska.   He                                                               
stated that  information will be  provided and  presented through                                                               
the IPHC  process, and  once implemented  in March  2012, through                                                               
the final rule will be in effect for that year.                                                                                 
***                                                                                                                             
2:29:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked if this  was not in place the agency                                                               
would  have to  go through  public  hearing process  to make  the                                                               
changes.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL answered  the IPHC is currently under  the CSP public                                                               
comment period.   In further response  to REPRESENTATIVE Johnson,                                                               
he responded  that anything  adopted by  council or  initiated by                                                               
NMFS would require notice and comment process.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  asked  whether the  CSP  streamlines  or                                                               
circumvents the public process, depending on one's perspective.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL answered that in terms  of the CSP, the IPHC provides                                                               
an  opportunity to  comment on  management measures,  allocation,                                                               
and  how  will occur  under  each  scenario  is open  for  public                                                               
comment.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  suggested that  the IPHC can  institute a                                                               
management plan under the CSP  without going through the required                                                               
federal rule making  process that the IPHC must  currently use to                                                               
make a change.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL thought  it may be helpful to note  that the IPHC can                                                               
make  recommendations   at  its   annual  meeting  that   can  be                                                               
implemented with  the concurrence of  Secretary of State  and the                                                               
Secretary of  Commerce.  He elaborated  that if the IPHC  makes a                                                               
recommendation  it   would  be  subject  to   a  foreign  affairs                                                               
exemption   so  specific   legal   requirements   for  a   treaty                                                               
organization  or convention  is the  instrument for  implementing                                                               
regulations.   In that case  the IPHC can make  a recommendation,                                                               
which could be implemented directly by a final rule.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   JOHNSON  inquired   as  to   whether  the   U.S.                                                               
Department   of  Commerce   can  do   something  without   public                                                               
testimony.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL  answered that  this is a  provision that  comes into                                                               
effect due  to an  international body.   The tree  supersedes the                                                               
ability   of   the   U.S.  Department   of   Commerce   to   make                                                               
recommendations.   In other words,  any regulation that  the NMFS                                                               
adopts that is based on  a recommendation either from the council                                                               
or  developed by  the Secretary  of Commerce  requires notes  and                                                               
common rulemaking.  However, the  IPHC is an alternate regulatory                                                               
body  for  halibut  management   and  through  annual  management                                                               
measures  submit  to  the  government  of  Canada  and  the  U.S.                                                               
recommendations.   Those recommendations are either  accepted for                                                               
the U.S.  by the Secretary of  State with the concurrence  of the                                                               
Secretary   of  Commerce   or  not.     If   not  accepted,   the                                                               
recommendations  are   not  implemented  and  the   prior  year's                                                               
regulations  remain  in  effect.    If  the  recommendations  are                                                               
accepted,  they  become  effective,  which is  a  provision  that                                                               
exists  due  to  the  international body  status  and  a  binding                                                               
convention with Canada.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:33:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  answered  that   the  steps  up  to  the                                                               
preferred  alternatives for  3A do  not  have to  go through  the                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL answered  that presuming the final  rule is published                                                               
that each year  the IPHC would undergo a process  to consider the                                                               
combined  catch  limit and  future  projections  of harvests  and                                                               
whether charter  harvests would be  below, within, or  exceed the                                                               
specific  range and  the  specific  management measures  detailed                                                               
here  would be  implemented through  the recommendation  that the                                                               
IPHC makes  to the  U.S. Secretary of  Commerce and  Secretary of                                                               
State.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked whether the Secretary  of State and                                                               
Secretary of  Commerce would have  to approve scenario Tier  1 or                                                               
Tier 2.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL answered yes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:34:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN  asked  in  terms  of  the  timeframes,                                                               
noting that  IPHC meets in November,  whether it would be  a full                                                               
year before IPHC would hear concerns or suggestions.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL  answered that  the IPHC would  meet twice,  first as                                                               
interim meeting and then to  hold the annual meeting during which                                                               
time  it  would  make  recommendations.    He  related  there  is                                                               
typically  a two-month  time period  between the  initial meeting                                                               
and the  final recommendation  and the  publication of  rule that                                                               
implements  the recommendations.   Thus,  typically by  mid-March                                                               
the IPHC  publishes its  measures and  it would  receive feedback                                                               
throughout  the year  as well  as initial  data in  the following                                                               
November for the  total harvest that had  occurred for commercial                                                               
and sport  harvest for that year.   The IPHC would  then consider                                                               
the comments in the following January.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:36:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN assumed that  council staff has input in                                                               
between interim and annual meeting.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL answered that the  NMFS and the ADF&G can communicate                                                               
throughout the year  with the IPHC.  However, the  IPHC body only                                                               
acts at annual meeting unless  they hold a special session, which                                                               
has previously happened.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:37:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   AUSTERMAN   observing   the  process   for   the                                                               
timeframes  from 1995-2011  noted that  it can  sometimes take  a                                                               
number of  years to make  a decision  in comparison to  the quick                                                               
action the Alaska Board of  Fisheries can take.  He characterized                                                               
it as inherent between federal  and state government systems.  He                                                               
referred  to slide  10  on  Halibut Removals,  and  asked for  an                                                               
explanation of wastage U 32, by catch  U 32, wastage 0 32, and by                                                               
catch 0 32.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL answered that the  Halibut Removal graphs from IPHC's                                                               
annual report.   The Wastage U  32 refers to halibut  caught that                                                               
fall  under 32  inches  in  length and  wastage  0  32 refers  to                                                               
halibut  over 32  inches in  length.   He explained  that wastage                                                               
refers  to commercial  halibut  fishery and  by  catch refers  to                                                               
halibut caught incidentally in other ground fish fisheries.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:39:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN referred  to the  years prior  to 1985,                                                               
noting  the biomass  was smaller  and peaked  in 1990s  and early                                                               
2000s.  He asked if that is a fair assessment.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL answered yes, in terms of removals.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN indicated  that the  light blue  sector                                                               
indicates  sport  fisheries.   He  recalled  in the  early  1990s                                                               
Washington had problems with halibut  fishery that resulted in an                                                               
influx of  fishermen coming to  Southeast Alaska as  charter boat                                                               
operators.   He reiterated  that the blue  shows the  increase in                                                               
the charter boat sport sector  and the reason for the discussion.                                                               
He  acknowledged  that   the  majority  of  fish   are  taken  by                                                               
commercial side  but the graph  indicates a definite  increase in                                                               
sport charter boat operators.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:40:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHANSEN stated  that the  pie for  allocation is                                                               
getting smaller.   He inquired as  to whether the agency  has any                                                               
ideas why the reduction of  halibut biomass allocation is getting                                                               
smaller.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRILL deferred to the IPHC.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHANSEN surmised  then that  if it  difficult to                                                               
assess why  the biomass has reduced  then it may be  difficult to                                                               
address the issue.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:41:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHANSEN observed  that IPHC  is depicted  as the                                                               
tail, which he  thought was apt due to  the federal appointments,                                                               
which causes a  great deal of frustration in Alaska.   He noticed                                                               
between areas  of 3A  and 2C the  guideline harvest  levels (GHL)                                                               
have not  been exceeded in  3A.  He  asked why the  difference in                                                               
the GHL for the two areas for the charter fleet.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. WITHERELL  responded that the  line is  drawn by the  IPHC as                                                               
its regulatory line.   He speculated that  the charter businesses                                                               
in  Southeast  Alaska  to  some   extent  differ  from  those  in                                                               
Southcentral.    He  anticipated  that  based  on  testifiers  at                                                               
council meetings some business plans  in Southeast Alaska include                                                               
a number  of large lodges  that may have  a fleet of  vessels and                                                               
vessels that utilize  various fishery types, such  as halibut and                                                               
salmon charters.   The charter businesses out of  Homer may focus                                                               
entirely on  halibut.  He offered  his belief that the  two areas                                                               
serve different  clientele and  needs plus  the operators  have a                                                               
wide variety of operations.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:44:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  THOMPSON reviewed  allocations.   He pointed  out that  it                                                               
looks  like  the  Southcentral Alaska  charter  fleet  has  lived                                                               
within  their allocation  for approximately  the past  ten years,                                                               
that commercial  fishermen have high  prices and IFQ prices.   He                                                               
inquired  as to  any issues  with keeping  allocation at  current                                                               
levels.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. WITHERELL responded he is  correct, that in Southcentral Area                                                               
3A, the guideline harvest level  (GHL) has remained pretty close.                                                               
If the  biomass continues to  decline in Southcentral,  under the                                                               
GHL  system,  it will  take  several  years through  the  federal                                                               
National Marine Fisheries Service  (NMFS) process to make changes                                                               
to the  two fish bag limit.   He predicted that  the system could                                                               
result in  exceeding the GHL,  which would also be  reduced since                                                               
it is a stair step program and  the actual catch would not so the                                                               
GHL could potentially be exceeded for several years.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:46:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  said it almost  seems to appear  that the                                                               
agency is trying to protect  itself since the agency doesn't know                                                               
what will happen.   He pointed out that the  federal actions will                                                               
impact Alaskans.   People plan tourism trips one or  two years in                                                               
advance   so  their   trip  decisions   are   based  on   today's                                                               
information, which may  change.  He questioned how  the NPFMC and                                                               
IPHC  can make  decisions  and  recommendations without  economic                                                               
data.   He said  if the  decisions are made  without the  data it                                                               
would  be  a  disservice  to  Alaskans  and  the  resource.    He                                                               
characterized  the  federal  actions  without  economic  data  as                                                               
making decisions in  a vacuum.  He said the  agency is allocating                                                               
money without  knowing the impact  of the decisions.   He further                                                               
questioned as to the rush.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MERRILL said  the  points just  made were  made  by many  of                                                               
people who testified  during the council process in  terms of the                                                               
effect of this on their businesses.   He said the IPHC heard from                                                               
charter  operators, associated  businesses, commercial  operators                                                               
and associated businesses.  In  terms of the analysis, the agency                                                               
uses the  best available information.   He acknowledged  that the                                                               
council doesn't  have a good  "apples to apples"  comparison with                                                               
regard  to   harvesting  one  pound  of   halibut  in  commercial                                                               
fisheries versus  charter fisheries.  Unfortunately,  the council                                                               
lacks  those  complicated,  expensive,   and  difficult  data  to                                                               
obtain.  He  reiterated that the council has  used available data                                                               
and  will continue  to do  so.   In the  event the  IPHC receives                                                               
additional  information on  value of  the commercial  and charter                                                               
fisheries, then  it could reconsider or  reevaluate the fisheries                                                               
in  future.    He  acknowledged  that  the  council  has  limited                                                               
information, but in terms of  total information the IPHC uses the                                                               
best available information.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:49:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON understood.   He said, "We're talking huge                                                               
dollars here, to  our economy.  It's worth the  investment to get                                                               
the information."   He pointed out it takes five  years to change                                                               
the policies and  most of the small charter  businesses and small                                                               
businesses  along  the  highways  don't  have  five  years.    He                                                               
reiterated  his  belief  that  this  could  potentially  decimate                                                               
industries  -  tourism, fishing,  and  food  in freezers  of  his                                                               
constituents.   He predicted  the industries would  be gone.   He                                                               
asked,  "How  can you  in  good  conscience implement  this  plan                                                               
without the information?"   He said he couldn't  predict what the                                                               
economic information  would show but it  is important information                                                               
for the  council to  have prior  to making  any decisions  on the                                                               
CSP.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:51:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  commented that  he has been  fishing since                                                               
1973.   He reported that the  halibut industry is 100  years old.                                                               
He started fishing in the  open access fishery, putting in 50,000                                                               
pounds per year.  He referred  to the changes as corrections, and                                                               
during the  derby days he  bought additional poundage to  make it                                                               
viable.   He  related  that  his peak  harvest  of 28,000  pounds                                                               
yielded approximately $84,000  earnings per year.   He stated due                                                               
to the loss of halibut biomass  and subsequent quota loss that in                                                               
recent years  his harvest is  down to  6,000 pounds at  $7.10 per                                                               
pound  $43,000  earnings.  The  economics don't  work  out.    He                                                               
offered high fuel costs of $1,500  to make one trip.  He compared                                                               
displacement  issues with  the timber  to displacement  issues in                                                               
the commercial industry.   He related he has fished  for 42 years                                                               
and  is willing  to  sit  out fisheries  for  the  resource.   He                                                               
pointed out his  losses of $50,000 per year. He  said some of his                                                               
constituents  cannot afford  to fish  any  longer due  to the  70                                                               
percent reductions  in their  quotas.  He  has not  heard similar                                                               
comments from charter  guides in Area 2C.  He  offered his belief                                                               
that the charter industry should  share the pain equally with the                                                               
commercial fishery.   He recommended  that if anyone  exceeds GHL                                                               
deduct  the  fisheries  management  should deduct  it  from  next                                                               
year's  catch  in  order  to  drive  home  that  it's  about  the                                                               
resource.   He  has enjoyed  the fisheries  but has  been hearing                                                               
that the  resource cannot  handle the  overharvesting, regardless                                                               
of who is earning the money.   He has observed the devastation in                                                               
Southeast Alaska halibut  fisheries.  He hoped  the fishery would                                                               
come back.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:56:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHANSEN commented  he understands  the economics                                                               
that Representatives  Johnson and  Thomas highlighted.   However,                                                               
it will  be a  moot point if  the state loses  the resource.   He                                                               
asked what tools  the legislature can provide to  help solve this                                                               
riddle.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. WITHERELL  responded that maintaining funding  for ADF&G data                                                               
on guided angler and unguided angler is critical to decisions.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:58:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:58 p.m. to 3:07 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THOMPSON called the meeting back to order at 3:07 p.m.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:07:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD YAMADA,  Board Member, Alaska Charter  Association (ACA),                                                               
Juneau,  Alaska, explained  that the  Alaska Charter  Association                                                               
(ACA)  is a  statewide organization  representing 150  lodges and                                                               
charter operators.   He related that he is a  30 year lodge owner                                                               
in  Southeast Alaska.   He  asked  to present  generally and  not                                                               
focus on  the technical  and legal  issues.   He stated  that the                                                               
sport  fishing charter  industry is  a $1.4  billion industry  as                                                               
indicated  by  an  ADF&G  2007  Southwick  study  [slide  1].  He                                                               
reported  that Southcentral  Alaska  supports  about 11,535  area                                                               
jobs, $91  million in  state and local  taxes.   Southeast Alaska                                                               
has supported 1,897 area jobs and  $14 million in state and local                                                               
taxes.    The   sport  charter  management  has   been  based  on                                                               
unnecessary  fears  that  no  longer   exist.  Some  feared  that                                                               
overfishing   by   the   charter   fleet   could   threaten   the                                                               
sustainability of the resource and [slide  2].  He pointed to the                                                               
development  of the  guideline harvest  level  (GHL) and  charter                                                               
halibut limited entry  program.  Some feared  that an exponential                                                               
growth in  the charter fisheries adversely  affect the commercial                                                               
fishing fleet [slide 3].                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:09:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. YAMADA  related additional fears  would adversely  affect the                                                               
resource  [slide   3].    These   recent  statistics   are  ADF&G                                                               
statistics of active  vessels in Southeast Alaska,  and his focus                                                               
will be  on Area  2C since it  has exceeded its  GHL.   The Sitka                                                               
fleet peaked  in 2007  but since then  has decreased  in numbers.                                                               
He  reported that  this  data  was provided  by  log  books.   He                                                               
pointed out that  the numbers have declined and  the rapid growth                                                               
charter  fleet   vessel  industry  has  stopped,   prior  to  the                                                               
implementation of  the limited entry  program for  charter boats.                                                               
He referred to the data in  terms of the concern that overfishing                                                               
by  the  charter  fleet  threatens   the  sustainability  of  the                                                               
resource  [slide 4].   He  explained that  the FCEY  represents a                                                               
formula to determine  the biological catch figures.   The council                                                               
can  apply policy  and  other  methods to  vary  the  catch.   He                                                               
explained  that  since  2006 the  total  commercial  catch  limit                                                               
overages exceeded  10 million pounds  of halibut.   The Southeast                                                               
Alaska  Sport Charter  harvest since  2006  resulted in  overages                                                               
fell  under 3  million  pounds.   He  characterized  the math  as                                                               
complicated.   The  Area  2C limit  is  set at  one  fish with  a                                                               
maximum size of 37 inches [slide  5].  He predicted that based on                                                               
the 2011 mid-season ADF&G reports that  Area 2C will be under its                                                               
GHL  by as  much as  40 percent  at the  end of  the season.   He                                                               
concluded  that   the  charter   fleet  does  not   threaten  the                                                               
sustainability of  the halibut resource.   He  highlighted points                                                               
on the  Catch Sharing Plan (CSP)  [slide 6].  He  stated that the                                                               
charter fleet provided this information  in 2009.  However, since                                                               
then, nothing  has changed in terms  of the issues.   He asserted                                                               
that the  ACA has  frequently testified but  has not  been heard.                                                               
He listed  the five points,  which he  said will be  discussed on                                                               
further slides,  as follows:  This  will be the first  "hard cap"                                                               
allocation  to  the  charter  sector.    The  GHL  represented  a                                                               
guideline but the  CSP will definitely give the  charter sector a                                                               
hard cap.  Allocation would be  up to 30 percent lower than under                                                               
the  current management  regime, which  is the  GHL.   Allocation                                                               
will  be  based on  the  fishery  model  that no  longer  exists.                                                               
Allocation decisions will bypass  federal APA rule making process                                                               
and  U.S.   allocations  will   be  made   at  the   IPHC  level.                                                               
Compensated  transfer mechanism  proposed would  essentially make                                                               
charter fleet commercial fishermen.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:13:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. YAMADA  highlighted the  first point, that  this will  be the                                                               
first "hard cap" allocation to  the charter fishery sector [slide                                                               
7].   He  explained that  the current  management of  the charter                                                               
fishing sector is conducted under a  GHL established in 2003.  He                                                               
stated that basically  the initial level was set too  low for the                                                               
charter fishing sector in Southeast  Alaska and harvest by guided                                                               
anglers was exceeded since the  first year of implementation.  He                                                               
offered  his belief  that for  Area 2C,  the mere  fact that  the                                                               
guidelines were exceeded meant something  was wrong with the cap.                                                               
The charter  fishing sector overages  were dwarfed by  the amount                                                               
of   fish  the   commercial   fishing  sector   was  allowed   to                                                               
overharvest.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:14:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. YAMADA illustrated the CSP  allocation to the charter fishing                                                               
sector will be up to 30  percent less than the current management                                                               
system allows  [slide 8].   He  pointed out  the GHL  stair steps                                                               
with the CSP  allocation.  He indicated that the  chart shows the                                                               
CSP  will fall  well below  the current  allocation.   This chart                                                               
shows the  effects if  the CSP were  implemented this  year which                                                               
would  be  approximately 31  percent  less  than the  GLH  method                                                               
[slide  9].   He stated  this allocation  is based  on a  fishery                                                               
model that no  longer exists [slide 10]. Prior to  2008, the IPHC                                                               
used a  "Closed Area Assessment  Model" to  determine exploitable                                                               
biomass.   Since  2008 a  "Coastwide Assessment  Model" has  been                                                               
used that significantly reduced  exploitable biomass.  He offered                                                               
his  belief this  is the  main reason  that Southeast  Alaska has                                                               
seen the charter and commercial  fishing allocations have been so                                                               
low.    He  explained  that   the  change  was  to  a  geographic                                                               
percentage  based  on  the  IPHC's  analysis.    Thus,  Southeast                                                               
receives  only a  small percentage  of the  allocation.   He said                                                               
that  the CSP  analysis  and allocations  are  based on  outdated                                                               
models and data.  He reiterated  that the change to the coastwide                                                               
assessment  model so  the  IPHC's projections  were  flawed.   He                                                               
predicted that until the reason  for the slowdown of the juvenile                                                               
and adult  biomass over 32, the  projections will be flawed.   He                                                               
stated that  this reduction in allocation  and erroneous projects                                                               
will  result in  increased  charter  harvest restrictions,  which                                                               
translate in Southcentral Alaska to  a reduction from two halibut                                                               
per  day to  one halibut  per day,  and for  Southeast Alaska,  a                                                               
reduction in size from 37 inches to as low as 32 inches.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:17:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. YAMADA  predicted that the  allocation decisions  will bypass                                                               
the  federal  Administrative  Procedures Act  (APA)  rule  making                                                               
process  and U.S.  allocations will  be made  at the  IPHC [slide                                                               
12].  He  explained that the APA requires federal  rule making to                                                               
follow strict  scientific analysis  and provides  the opportunity                                                               
for public comment.  The  CSP will direct decisions on allocation                                                               
to the IPHC which is not bound  by the APA.  He further predicted                                                               
that this probably will be challenged  in court.  He related that                                                               
domestic allocations  will be done  by sovereign nations  and not                                                               
the  IPHC [slide  13].   He  expressed interest  in comments  Mr.                                                               
Merrill made  on the  IPHC's authority.   He  offered that  it is                                                               
possible that  the charter sector  would be arguing issues  in an                                                               
international court  without having  any representation  on IPHC.                                                               
He pointed  out that the charter  fishing operators have 1  of 11                                                               
representatives at the  domestic level, but it does  not have any                                                               
IPHC   representation.     The  compensated   transfer  mechanism                                                               
proposed  will make  charter  fleet  commercial fishermen  [slide                                                               
14].   The  CSP  provides for  a  temporary compensated  transfer                                                               
mechanism  called   the  guided  angler  fish   (GAF).    Charter                                                               
operators would  sell the opportunity  to catch fish.   Under the                                                               
GAF program charter fishing operators  would sell the GAF fish to                                                               
willing buyers  after the fish  is caught.  He  characterized the                                                               
GAF provisions as  very loose in terms of mechanics.   He offered                                                               
his belief this would require an  operator to need a GAF account,                                                               
and if a  guest on board catches a fish  beyond his/her bag limit                                                               
that the operator  would need to account for the  extra fish.  He                                                               
anticipated that most operators  would have GAF capability, would                                                               
hook  the halibut  and prior  to landing  would determine  if the                                                               
client  wanted  to   pay  $150  for  the  second   halibut.    He                                                               
anticipated  decisions would  be made  based on  the size  of the                                                               
fish.   He asked whether this  would violate the concept  of sale                                                               
of sport caught fish [slide 15].                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:21:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YAMADA  stated  that   the  compensated  transfer  mechanism                                                               
proposed  under the  CSP would  essentially  makes charter  fleet                                                               
operators commercial  fishermen.   He turned  to what  this would                                                               
mean to Alaska and speculated  that the implementation of the CSP                                                               
will   lead  to   reduced   fishery   opportunities  for   guided                                                               
recreational anglers, of which 60  percent in Southcentral Alaska                                                               
are  residents  [slide  16].   He  predicted  that  less  angling                                                               
opportunity  will  lead to  less  demand  and charter  and  local                                                               
operators  will suffer.    He reported  that  revenue from  sport                                                               
fishing  licenses will  decline, noting  that 60  percent of  the                                                               
Dingell-Johnson funds  are based on  fishing license sales.   The                                                               
Criddle study on pacific halibut  found that benefit maximization                                                               
occurs  when  the  commercial  sector  has  71  percent  and  the                                                               
recreational  sector has  29  percent of  the  harvest pounds  as                                                               
compared  to  2007, in  which  the  harvest  was 87  percent  for                                                               
commercial fishing  and 12 percent  for charter  operators [slide                                                               
17].  He  emphasized the need to consider the  optimal benefit to                                                               
local  communities  when  allocation  decisions  are  made.    He                                                               
characterized this as  one study that considered  allocation.  He                                                               
suggested  the  importance  of   consider  the  optimal  economic                                                               
studies.  Alaska  doesn't have socio-economic models  in place to                                                               
determine angler demand.   He said he is careful  not to overfish                                                               
the resource as a charter operator  in Southeast Alaska.  He said                                                               
the  regulations  created  overharvest  of  the  GHL  and  unless                                                               
regulators can control  the amount of the  harvest and understand                                                               
on angler demand.  He pointed out  that it is not a dynamic built                                                               
into the  commercial fisheries  model.  He  pointed out  that the                                                               
recreational fishery is  a "different animal" and needs  to use a                                                               
different model.  He outlined  action needed, including writing a                                                               
letter to the Alaska Delegation  requesting a 60-day extension of                                                               
the comment period  to allow charter operators  an opportunity to                                                               
comment [slide  18].  He  remarked that  this CSP rule  change is                                                               
happening  at   the  worst  time   for  the  charter   and  lodge                                                               
industries.   The proposed rule came  out in July at  the peak of                                                               
the season.   He commented  that this  will be "written  in stone                                                               
for a long time" and operators  need more time to get information                                                               
out to  charter operators.   He also suggested that  the governor                                                               
also needs to  weigh in on the proposed rule  change.  He offered                                                               
his belief that the CSP is an unfair and inequitable regulation.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:24:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN asked to preface  his remarks that he is                                                               
perceived as a  commercial fisherman and is not  here to chastise                                                               
charter operators.   He heard  some discussion  by Representative                                                               
Thomas that  he lost 70 percent  of his IFQ due  to the declining                                                               
biomass.      Mr.   Yamada   mentioned   the   IPHC's   different                                                               
methodologies.  He  said he was unsure of whether  the biomass is                                                               
increasing or decreasing.   He referred to the  2007 ADF&G report                                                               
that predicted Area 2C would be under  the GHL by 40 percent.  He                                                               
thought that seemed  to correlate to the IFQ  total poundage loss                                                               
so the  70 percent  loss versus  the 40 loss  seemed like  a fair                                                               
allocation  issue.   He asked  whether  it is  a fair  assessment                                                               
since if the biomass is  down it seems the recreational fisheries                                                               
would be down as well.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. YAMADA  answered that  the biomass is  healthy and  is pretty                                                               
much at  an historic high.   He  said the question  surrounds the                                                               
harvestable  or exploitable  biomass and  whether the  halibut is                                                               
over 32 inches.   He offered that the  projections are forecasted                                                               
as exploitable  biomass.   He offered his  theory that  the major                                                               
reduction in  the exploitable biomass  is due to  some biological                                                               
reason.  The fish  are taking a long time to get up  to size.  He                                                               
pointed out  that the reproductive  adult female halibut  are not                                                               
as large and frequently fall under  32 inches.  The IPHC has been                                                               
considering reducing the size from  32 to 30 inches to compensate                                                               
for that.   Thus, the recruitment  or size of fish  is down, plus                                                               
the  management  changes  to  allocation  reduced  the  Southeast                                                               
Alaska charter  operator's allocation.   He said the  net benefit                                                               
to a  community during low  levels of abundance and  someone must                                                               
make a political decision.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:28:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. YAMADA  recalled that  the IFQ holders  have been  reduced so                                                               
from  2,400 to  1,200 in  Southeast and  from 3,000  to 1,500  in                                                               
Southcentral Alaska,  so the very  nature of IFQ has  reduced the                                                               
number of participants.  In  the charter industry, lots of people                                                               
want  to fish  in  Alaska,  but through  the  limited entry,  the                                                               
charter  operators  are  capped.    He  offered  his  belief  any                                                               
decisions  that need  to be  made now  should be  to decide  what                                                               
brings the best economic benefit to the state.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:30:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN  agreed   that  probably  a  biological                                                               
reason  exists   and  fishery  biomasses   ebb  and  flow.     As                                                               
Representative  Johnson   indicated  the  charter   industry  has                                                               
planning   constraints   due   to  customers.      However,   the                                                               
sustainability of  the resources is  the primary reason  that the                                                               
legislature  is  interested  in  the  issue.   He  agreed  it  is                                                               
difficult  to figure  out how  to  address the  issues given  the                                                               
length of time  it takes for the  NPFMC to act.   He stressed the                                                               
importance of erring  on the side of sustainability.   He pointed                                                               
out that the charter industry  has been capped and the commercial                                                               
fishing has constraints  since it employs an IFQ system.   He was                                                               
curious about the  comments on GAF fish.  He  recalled that since                                                               
he has  served in  the legislature since  1995, some  have viewed                                                               
the charter  industry as a form  of commercial fishing.   He said                                                               
he doesn't  understand totally  the GAF system  yet, but  the GHL                                                               
has been capped.   He noted that  during the past 10  to 15 years                                                               
the  biomass has  seen growth,  but at  the same  time commercial                                                               
fishermen increased  while the charter industry  stayed the same.                                                               
He  expressed concern  over the  length of  the federal  process,                                                               
since the  changes should have  taken place  long ago so  the GHL                                                               
flowed with the biomass, which  could have alleviated some of the                                                               
issues.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:33:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  remarked that the whole  world isn't going                                                               
to come to Alaska and sport charter fish.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
[Due to technical  difficulties, the audio between  3:33:30 PM to                                                               
3:44:04 PM  was lost.   The  following testimony  was constructed                                                               
from Mr. Vinsel's written statement.]                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MARK  VINSEL, Executive  Director,  United  Fishermen of  Alaska,                                                               
stated that the  United Fishermen of Alaska is  a statewide trade                                                               
association  representing  37  commercial  fishing  organizations                                                               
from  fisheries throughout  Alaska and  federal waters  offshore.                                                               
He welcomed the  opportunity to provide the  UFA's perspective on                                                               
the Alaska Pacific  halibut fisher and Catch  Sharing Plan (CSP).                                                               
He  related  that  the  committee  plans  to  address  abundance,                                                               
allocation, and stakeholder groups  of Pacific halibut in Alaska,                                                               
and take  public testimony concerning  the proposed  CSP proposed                                                               
by the  NMFS.  He stated  that the abundance of  halibut has long                                                               
been understood  to be cyclical,  so management needs to  be able                                                               
to accommodate fluctuations in allowable  harvest.  Allocation is                                                               
always  hard fought,  contentions,  and  controversial, with  the                                                               
largest stakeholder  being the public  who will  consume halibut,                                                               
whether they catch it themselves on  a private or charter boat or                                                               
purchase   it  in   markets   or   restaurants  from   commercial                                                               
fishermen's harvests.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VINSEL  asked  to  address  the  general  considerations  of                                                               
sustainable fisheries  management as  it pertains to  the halibut                                                               
fisheries.   He  welcomed additional  testimony from  the Halibut                                                               
Coalition  as it  would be  better able  to address  the specific                                                               
details and  provide the  historical background of  the CSP.   He                                                               
reported  that  Alaska is  held  up  as  a model  of  sustainable                                                               
commercial fisheries.   In addition to being  a federally managed                                                               
fishery, the Pacific halibut fishery  has since 1923 been subject                                                               
to an international convention between  the governments of Canada                                                               
and the U.S.,  with the mandate of research on  and management of                                                               
the stocks  of the Pacific  halibut within the  convention waters                                                               
of both nations.  The NMFS and  the NPFMC each have a direct role                                                               
in  halibut fisheries  management,  but  management measures  are                                                               
constrained   by  the   International  Convention.     Historical                                                               
background    is   available    at    the    IPHC   website    at                                                               
http://www.iphc.int.  Mr. Vinsel  indicated that the track record                                                               
of the IPHC  fishery during the last 88 years  shows a remarkable                                                               
record of sustainability  and the ability to assess  and react to                                                               
cyclical  variations in  halibut abundance  in the  North Pacific                                                               
waters.  In  relatively recent times, a  "derby" style management                                                               
evolved into an often dangerous  commercial fishery of just a few                                                               
days or less duration, regardless  of the weather, to harvest the                                                               
allowable sustainable catch.   In 1995, after more  than 10 years                                                               
of  deliberations the  NPFMC implemented  the Individual  Fishing                                                               
Quota  (IFQ)  system  in  the   commercial  fishery.    The  long                                                               
gestation   clearly  attests   to  the   program's  gravity   and                                                               
controversy,  which   is  not  unlike  the   current  controversy                                                               
surrounding the charter fishery.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.   VINSEL  related   the   benefits   to  commercial   fishery                                                               
participants result in  a far safer and  predictable fishery that                                                               
can  be   integrated  into   a  diversified   business  operation                                                               
combining  differences  fisheries.   The  benefit  to the  public                                                               
consumers of  halibut is access to  fresh halibut for up  to nine                                                               
months of the year, rather than  the very short duration that was                                                               
provided  during the  short "derby"  season, after  which halibut                                                               
was necessarily sold frozen.   Overall, the economic value of the                                                               
fishery  to Alaska  communities and  the public's  access to  the                                                               
fishery   has  increased   tremendously  under   the  IFQ   based                                                               
management.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VINSEL  related as  an  umbrella  organization, the  UFA  is                                                               
familiar with the  high level of complication  and controversy in                                                               
fishery management  and allocation  matters.  The  UFA's strength                                                               
is its ability to set aside  the differences and focus in on what                                                               
the member  organizations have  in common.   He pointed  out that                                                               
all  participants,  including  charter, subsistence,  and  public                                                               
halibut  consumers should  all agree  that the  sustainability of                                                               
the resource is  the first priority.  He also  related the second                                                               
priority  is   to  sustain  the   delicate  balance   of  fishing                                                               
businesses and  communities.   He acknowledged  this is  where it                                                               
gets  complicated.    He  quoted Dr.  James  Balsiger,  a  former                                                               
administrator  for the  NMFS,  during his  speech  at Comfish  in                                                               
Kodiak in 2009,  "Fisheries management isn't rocket  science - as                                                               
a  matter of  fact  it is  a  whole lot  more  complicated."   He                                                               
emphasized that  if it  were able  to be  modeled mathematically,                                                               
the  management   of  sustainable  fisheries  would   be  a  very                                                               
complicated  equation.    Many variables  can  be  predicted  and                                                               
adjusted for and the 88-year  track record of the pacific halibut                                                               
management  shows that  the scientific  and regulatory  processes                                                               
have been working very well.   However, he cautioned that in this                                                               
complex  and  delicately  balanced equation,  when  one  variable                                                               
changes dramatically,  the whole  equation can  be thrown  out of                                                               
balance.   He  related this  is the  situation that  Alaska finds                                                               
itself  in now,  with  the  rapid expansion  of  tourism and  the                                                               
charter  fleets, in  roughly the  same timeframe  as the  current                                                               
halibut   IFQ  management   system   has   held  all   commercial                                                               
participants to strictly enforcement quotas.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[The audio recording begins.]                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:44:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. VINSEL explained  that overages from the  charter sector were                                                               
deducted  from the  following year's  commercial harvest  and new                                                               
scientific research made  changes to the apportionment/allocation                                                               
among the different regulatory regions,  with the greatest impact                                                               
being  the  reduction  in  the   commercial  share  harvested  in                                                               
Southeast  Alaska  where most  of  the  charter growth  has  also                                                               
occurred.   He offered his belief  that if the current  levels of                                                               
charter fishing had been anticipated  at the time the IFQ program                                                               
was implemented,  it would  have made the  most sense  to include                                                               
charter  participants in  some  form in  the  development of  the                                                               
program.  Hindsight  is  20-20,  but  the issue  at  hand  is  to                                                               
integrate  the charter  fisheries  into  the overall  sustainable                                                               
management regime.  He emphasized that  a CSP is long overdue and                                                               
the current plan is the result  of six years of focused attention                                                               
at the NPFMC  in a working group that  included stakeholders from                                                               
the charter  sector.  The  Council Halibut  Stakeholder committee                                                               
was a  13 member committee chaired  by a NPFMC staff  who did not                                                               
vote, 2  commercial fishermen  representatives, 1  processor, the                                                               
ADF&G    Sportfish   Director,    and   8    charter/recreational                                                               
representatives  of  whom many  had  over  15  years or  more  of                                                               
charter business experience.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:45:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VINSEL  noted  that  in October  2007,  the  commercial  and                                                               
charter sectors stood up together in  support at the council by a                                                               
joint commercial and charter presentation.   This compromise took                                                               
off  the  table  in-season  management  with  closures  when  the                                                               
charter allocation was reached.   This contrasts with the British                                                               
Columbia's  actions  when  recently it  abruptly  closed  charter                                                               
halibut fishery in its waters  as its allowable charter catch was                                                               
reached.  In return the  charter industry agreed that the council                                                               
would  err  on the  side  of  conservation  in the  selection  of                                                               
management tools  and/or season  length with  the result  that in                                                               
some  years  the  charter  sector  may  not  harvest  its  entire                                                               
allocation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. VINSEL  said that  the current  action on  the CSP  meets the                                                               
objection of the problem statement  and meets three but essential                                                               
goals:   It establishes  a clear  allocation between  the charter                                                               
and long  line sectors  sharing the burden  of conservation.   It                                                               
establishes  a   responsive  management  system   with  proactive                                                               
accountability measures  to prevent annual catch  limit overages.                                                               
It also provides a mechanism  for limited transfer of quota share                                                               
from  the  commercial  to  the   charter  sector.    However,  he                                                               
acknowledged that implementing these  kinds of measures is always                                                               
controversial.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:47:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. VINSEL  related the results are  never set in stone,  but are                                                               
subject  to the  fine tuning  through amendments  in the  council                                                               
process.   The essential  need at  this time  is to  stop further                                                               
delay and bring charter halibut  fisheries into a framework where                                                               
the growth in that sector  can be accommodated without exceed the                                                               
overall  sustainable   catch  limits,  or  further   risking  the                                                               
sustainability of  the halibut resource as  a delicately balanced                                                               
livelihood   of  commercial   fishing   participants  and   their                                                               
communities.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VINSEL  concluded  with  the  UFA's  recommendations,  which                                                               
included  support  for  the NPFMC  process  and  the  stakeholder                                                               
driven process encompassing ten  meetings that produced this CSP.                                                               
The  UFA also  supports the  IPHC  process to  set the  allowable                                                               
harvest based on  the best available science.   Additionally, the                                                               
UFA  embraced  the spirit  of  the  International Convention  for                                                               
sustainability  of the  halibut resource.   He  pointed out  that                                                               
Alaska  has to  hold its  share of  the responsibility  to manage                                                               
within IPHC's allowable  catch.  He said that based  on the UFA's                                                               
experience, he  asked members to encourage  charter operators and                                                               
public  to  engage  constructively   in  the  process  to  ensure                                                               
collective  voice and  historical  knowledge  of the  complicated                                                               
issues that face all fishery businesses.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:48:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HEATH  HILYARD,  Executive   Director,  Southeast  Alaska  Guides                                                               
Organization  (SEAGO),  on  behalf   of  the  SEAGO,  he  offered                                                               
comments.   He said after  listening to the presentations  by the                                                               
agencies it is  clear the issue of Pacific  halibut management is                                                               
complicated.  The SEAGO's goal has  been to help craft a fair and                                                               
equitable  plan  for  all  users  groups  while  balancing  sound                                                               
management and  maximizing economic benefit.   He asked  to focus                                                               
the majority  of comments  to Southeast Alaska.   He  offered his                                                               
belief that all  users are concerned about  the sustainability of                                                               
the halibut resource.   He related that  scientific management is                                                               
critical  to  protect  it for  future  generations  and  numerous                                                               
examples  of how  not  to  manage fishery  resources  exist.   He                                                               
offered his  belief that industry  and management are  working to                                                               
understand  changes  to  the  Pacific  halibut  fisheries.    The                                                               
slowing  maturation  rate has  contributed  to  the problems  and                                                               
numerous  potential  causes  contribute to  the  Pacific  halibut                                                               
dynamic.   He  pointed  out  that according  to  the 2011  IPHC's                                                               
meeting materials,  the exploitable biomass and  spawning biomass                                                               
have started to  recover and are on an upward  trend, although it                                                               
does not differentiate  between Areas 2C and 3A.   He highlighted                                                               
the greatest concern  the charter fishing sector is  the CSP does                                                               
not  seem   to  serve  the  conservation   aspects,  but  broadly                                                               
reallocates fish from one sector to  the other.  He referred to a                                                               
chart  in   members'  packets  titled,  "Comparison   of  current                                                               
Guideline Harvest  Level (GHL) with  proposed Catch  Sharing Plan                                                               
(CS))  - Area  2C."   The  31 percent  removed  from the  charter                                                               
sector reverts to  the commercial fishing sector,  which could be                                                               
leased back  under the guided  angler fish provision.   He turned                                                               
to the  Charter Halibut Permit,  which is a limited  entry system                                                               
which has  only been in  effect in 2011  season.  He  offered his                                                               
belief that a large number  of temporary permits are being fished                                                               
under while  operators are having their  applications reviewed to                                                               
determine  eligibility and  given  the appeal  process, the  true                                                               
effect  will  not  be  known  until  2012.    He  emphasized  the                                                               
importance  prior to  implementing other  measures, which  may be                                                               
draconian in nature.  Currently,  Southeast Alaska's bag limit is                                                               
one  fish under  a  37-inch  maximum size.    In  2011, the  IPHC                                                               
recommended Area 2C catch limit  at 2.33 million pounds reduction                                                               
of 47  percent from the  2010 allocation.   He predicted  that if                                                               
the  management  measures  continue the  charter  fishing  sector                                                               
anticipates  1.279 million  pounds or  about .049  million pounds                                                               
over the  GHL of  .788.  He  projected, using  ADF&G's mid-season                                                               
figures that  under the 37  inch rule, using the  average weights                                                               
for  the Area  2C, the  charter fishing  sector would  be 430,000                                                               
pounds or  a reduction of 359,000  pounds or 45 percent  from the                                                               
current GHL or  a total of 820,000 from 2010.   He also projected                                                               
the figures  assuming a 20  percent increase in the  average size                                                               
of a  fish would result  in the  charter fishing sector  total of                                                               
527,000 pounds  or a  reduction of 268,000  pounds or  34 percent                                                               
from  the current  GHL, or  a  reduction of  705,000 pounds  from                                                               
2010.   He concluded that the  midseason numbers in terms  of the                                                               
average  fish size  indicate about  a 27  inch fish  or for  a 12                                                               
pound fish  would equal  28.5 to  30 inch fish.   He  offered his                                                               
belief that  the regulations are  having the desired effect.   He                                                               
emphasized  that  the management  measures  should  have time  to                                                               
demonstrate the true impact of the existing changes.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:55:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HILYARD  recalled the Southwick  study mentioned.   He agreed                                                               
that study  likely provides the  best economic analysis  of sport                                                               
fishing in  Alaska but  it does  not distinguish  between charter                                                               
and unguided sport fishing.   He pointed out the report indicated                                                               
about  a  $137.5  million  spent on  sport  fishing  packages  by                                                               
nonresidents.    He  surmised  many  of  them  refer  to  charter                                                               
fishing.    He said  the  limited  and outdated  analysis  cannot                                                               
accurately  effect   the  CSP  will  have   on  communities  with                                                               
commercial  fishermen or  charter fishing  sector.   He expressed                                                               
concern about protecting  jobs.  He referred  to several articles                                                               
that  highlighted  Gustavus and  Glacier  Bay  National Park  and                                                               
Preserve.    The  first  one   illustrated  the  charter  fishing                                                               
customer satisfaction  and the other  a charter  fishing operator                                                               
who had a  mental breakdown.  He surmised it  was the same person                                                               
and  operator.   He referred  to earlier  comments by  Mr. Vinsel                                                               
that  identified  the largest  stakeholder  as  the public.    He                                                               
agreed that  the public is  the largest stakeholder, but  it does                                                               
not hold an IFQ.   Additionally, the charter fishing sector sells                                                               
opportunity.   When  the  consumer purchases  $30  for a  halibut                                                               
entrée they receive  it.  However, when a  charter fishing client                                                               
has paid  several thousand dollars  for a  three to five  day all                                                               
inclusive charter  package, the  client has  no guarantee.   Most                                                               
charter clients want  the opportunity to catch a  trophy fish but                                                               
are satisfied with something smaller.   However, telling a client                                                               
the fish size is limited to  37 inches reduces and diminishes the                                                               
demand for recreational guided angler fishing.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:59:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HILYARD  identified  angler  demand  and  angler  effort  as                                                               
central to the  charter fishing sector model.   He reiterated the                                                               
demand for  the opportunity  to catch  a trophy  class fish.   He                                                               
pointed out that the greater  the perceived value the greater the                                                               
effort.  Thus, this translates to  the amount of effort an angler                                                               
is willing to  put in to obtain  a larger fish.   He related that                                                               
the maximum size  limit and likely effects of the  one fish rule.                                                               
He offered  his belief  that the hostage  clients, who  are those                                                               
clients who had already booked  before the maximum size rule when                                                               
into effect.   He said the total fish caught  in 2011 was similar                                                               
to  2010,  but  the  substantially  reduced  fish  size  shows  a                                                               
significantly decreased angler effort.   He said that many people                                                               
are  catching one  halibut and  then turning  their attention  to                                                               
salmon or other  fish, but in some areas, such  as Gustavus it is                                                               
not possible to do so.   He mentioned one Petersburg operator had                                                               
a two  week period  in July  without any  clients booked  for the                                                               
first  time  in  20  years.   He  emphasized  the  importance  of                                                               
predictability to the extent that  many operators would prefer to                                                               
forego  high   abundance  for  stability   each  year   and  gain                                                               
allocation  in low  years.   He predicted  it is  not likely  the                                                               
charter fishing  sector would ever  return to  a two fish  of any                                                               
size limit.   He pointed out  that the table indicates  a gain in                                                               
poundage in one of five years,  but a loss of fish allocations in                                                               
the remaining five  years.  He also predicted the  effects of CSP                                                               
would not be known  until the plan has been in  effect for one to                                                               
two years.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  THOMPSON asked  him  to submit  written  comments for  the                                                               
record.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:02:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN asked  for  clarification  on what  the                                                               
guides are seeking in terms of limits and size of the fish.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. HILYARD  said did not want  to speak for SEAGO  but passed on                                                               
his sense  of the  operator comments  based on  his conversations                                                               
with  specific  operators.   He  said  that Ketchikan  or  Juneau                                                               
charter fishing  sector operators do not  currently advertise for                                                               
clients to come  and catch a world class "barn  door" since it is                                                               
not  consistent  with  the  size of  fish  actually  caught,  but                                                               
Gustavus and Elfin  Cove charter operators rely  on large halibut                                                               
as  the  anchor  for  their  businesses.   He  related  that  the                                                               
conversations  several  years  ago  would not  have  led  to  any                                                               
agreement  on a  bag limit  or size  limit.   However, given  the                                                               
current  issues with  halibut biomass,  the charter  operators he                                                               
spoke to tend  to favor an annual  bag limit of two  fish per day                                                               
of any  size, with one  per day under  32 inches.   He reiterated                                                               
that isn't  a formal  SEAGO position,  but generally  reflect the                                                               
nature  of  the  conversations   among  charter  operators.    He                                                               
estimated  that a  37 inch  fish results  in about  12 pounds  of                                                               
recoverable meat.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:06:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN referred to  his comments about Gustavus                                                               
and  asked  if   he  was  suggesting  allowing   larger  fish  by                                                               
regulation for some areas.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HILYARD  answered that generally  the charter fleet  has held                                                               
the view of "what's  good for one is good for all."   He was sure                                                               
some people  in Gustavus  would like the  option to  catch larger                                                               
fish.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:07:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  inquired as  to  the  mortality rate  on                                                               
released fish.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. HILYARD  recalled a  white paper  ADF&G prepared  that showed                                                               
with  the proper  equipment that  the average  mortality rate  on                                                               
catch  and release  is estimated  at  five percent.   In  further                                                               
response  to  Representative  Johnson,  he answered  he  was  not                                                               
familiar with the fishing practices of the commercial fishermen.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:09:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   JOHANSEN  commented   that   clients  want   the                                                               
opportunity to  catch something  big - which  is what  is missing                                                               
with the current Pacific halibut limit.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON remarked that he  has not seen any 37-inch                                                               
fish on brochures [just large fish depicted].                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:11:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS  pointed out  commercial fishermen  use the                                                               
same gear so the mortality rate  is the same, which is circle "C"                                                               
hooks and  it is simple  to release.  Also,  commercial fishermen                                                               
sell fish cheaper  than charter fish operators,  but not everyone                                                               
can afford to pay for charters.   He shared that he has fished at                                                               
lodge and has  never been offered a charter fish,  but has caught                                                               
fish about  28 to 30-inch  halibut.   He agreed the  average fish                                                               
caught were small fish.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:13:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KATHY  HANSEN, Executive  Director, Southeast  Alaska Fishermen's                                                               
Alliance;, Board  Member, Halibut Coalition, stated  that she has                                                               
fished  commercially and  holds state  limited entry  permits for                                                               
Southeast  Gillnet  and Power  Troll,  along  with 52  pounds  of                                                               
halibut  allocation  for Area  2C.    She  and her  husband  have                                                               
participated in numerous fisheries and  at one point had a permit                                                               
for an  allocation of  33,000 pounds  of halibut.   She  said she                                                               
appointed to  the NPFMC's  Halibut Charter  Stakeholder Committee                                                               
in 2006.   She  characterized the  CSP as  an evolution  based on                                                               
participation by  charter operators in the  committee process and                                                               
in  ad hoc  working groups.   Additionally,  the council  process                                                               
included a  ton of  testimony.   She related  that the  amount of                                                               
testimony   from    communities,   subsistence,    and   unguided                                                               
recreational  sectors,  which assisted  the  council  as the  CSP                                                               
evolved  through  the process.    The  Stakeholder Committee  was                                                               
charged  with  reviewing  short   term,  interim,  and  long-term                                                               
management  for the  fishery.   The  committee  was dominated  by                                                               
charter  sector representatives  who had  been long-term  charter                                                               
operators.  These charter fishing  sector members asked for spend                                                               
time on developing a limited  entry program since they had worked                                                               
through the IFQ  program and spent a lot of  time in the process.                                                               
The charter fishing  sector members found that about  the time of                                                               
the  final action  of  any IPHC  proposed rule  a  new influx  of                                                               
operators  existed who  wanted to  start over  again.   The ADF&G                                                               
representative made  a statement.   He said  that a third  of the                                                               
charter businesses overturn every three  years.  She has observed                                                               
that to  be true and  suggested it led  to the IFQ  program being                                                               
rescinded.  And nearly a third  of the new and longtime operators                                                               
did not qualify  for either IFQ or limited entry.   Another thing                                                               
to keep  in mind in terms  of the limited entry  program known as                                                               
the CSP  is that  it wasn't  meant to  address allocation  but to                                                               
identify  participants to  move  forward in  hopes  that a  group                                                               
would stay  long enough into  the process and understand  the due                                                               
diligence of  the CSP.   She said  that moratorium  limited entry                                                               
process  was fast  tracked and  a priority  of the  council.   In                                                               
2007,  final   action  was   taken  which   is  just   now  being                                                               
implemented.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:18:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HANSEN pointed out the charter  sector pushed for it, but now                                                               
doesn't like  it.   She returned  to the  Stakeholder Committee's                                                               
work  and  provided details  on  the  process, including  limited                                                               
entry actions  and the development  of a long-term program.   She                                                               
related that  in December  2005, the state  asked to  rescind IFQ                                                               
and  identified several  things  for the  committee to  consider.                                                               
One item was to change the GHL  to a system tied to abundance and                                                               
floated with the biomass so  everyone shared equally during times                                                               
of abundance  and decline.   The allocation options put  on table                                                               
during the  second or third  meeting were limited  to discussions                                                               
on different methods  but the range was never  discussed once the                                                               
council  adopted the  range allocation  motion.   Throughout  the                                                               
process  during 2005-2008,  considerable testimony  was given  to                                                               
support an allocation  system tied to abundance.  In 2007, during                                                               
the fall meeting  the IPHC identified that  stocks were declining                                                               
and  the commercial  fishing sector.   Subsequently,  the charter                                                               
fishing sector asked  for guaranteed poundage.   In 2008, charter                                                               
members vied  for a two-fish bag  limit of historic length.   The                                                               
IPHC members  recognized that  a two fish  bag limit  of historic                                                               
length would not support the  sustainability of the fish resource                                                               
and allow  for subsistence  and community  use.   The Stakeholder                                                               
Committee  worked on  long-term  compensated reallocation  plans,                                                               
which were  never finished.   In the process of  considering four                                                               
plans the charter  fishing sector asked to set  the allocation in                                                               
order to consider  which type of long-term plan to  support.  One                                                               
issue  was  the long-term  plans  required  federal and/or  state                                                               
actions to implement.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:22:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HANSEN  turned to the GAF  plan.  The charter  fishing sector                                                               
did not want  to purchase IFQs nor predispose  what the long-term                                                               
plan might  look like.   Some people  favored a pool  program and                                                               
others  an IFQ  program.    The result  was  the charter  fishing                                                               
sector thought  if it could  purchase quota plan it  would amount                                                               
to nothing but an IFQ for  the long-term evolution of the charter                                                               
fishing sector.  She  said that brings us to the  CSP in front of                                                               
us.   In October 2007, due  to basis of stakeholder  committee on                                                               
an allocation plan,  a group of commercial  fishermen and charter                                                               
sector  worked to  highlight consensus  and  disagreements.   She                                                               
related that three  people presented the "straw  man proposal" as                                                               
a means to move forward with  full support of the charter fishing                                                               
sector and the commercial fishermen  fleet.  This proposal became                                                               
the basis  for the  CSP.   She related the  proposal voted  on in                                                               
October 2008 contained  some elements, including a  way to reduce                                                               
time lag  between when  an overage  occurred and  when management                                                               
measure in  place for times  of abundance or  decline.  It  set a                                                               
clear   allocation  between   two  sectors.     It   acknowledged                                                               
projecting  preseason  to  provide   the  stability  the  charter                                                               
fishing  sector  desired  and   a  variance  for  management  and                                                               
precision.  She  agreed no one was happy with  the program, which                                                               
she thought may represent the best compromise.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:26:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HANSEN concluded  that the allocation is  fair and equitable.                                                               
The percentages  the charter fishing  sector was given  are equal                                                               
to or  higher than under the  GHL except for times  of abundance.                                                               
She offered  her belief that  was a deliberative  council process                                                               
and one in  which everyone shared the burden.   She said that the                                                               
CSP  contains the  combined commercial  and charter  sector catch                                                               
limit,  reflects  the  abundance  of the  stocks,  requires  both                                                               
sectors to share  in the burden of conservation,  and it provides                                                               
a limited  market-based allocation  transfer in  the form  of GAF                                                               
fish.  She  acknowledged some people misunderstand the  GAF.  She                                                               
defined  a  GAF fish  as  a  market  based decision  between  the                                                               
charter  operator  and commercial  sector.    The commercial  IFQ                                                               
program has very little, tight  constraints against leasing.  She                                                               
related the  GAF was  discussed for many  hours and  predicted it                                                               
will be  workable in the  long run.   She said  considerations of                                                               
bait and  fuel costs, and  crewmember boat share costs  help make                                                               
it viable. She acknowledged some  will lease and some will choose                                                               
not  to do  so.   She explained  one reason  for selecting  1,500                                                               
pounds or 10  percent is since the commercial IFQ  has a rollover                                                               
position that allows  a fisherman to carry over up  to 10 percent                                                               
of any un-fished IFQs.  The  rationale used was that people could                                                               
lease  out 10  percent of  their quota,  and the  used amount  is                                                               
apportioned, with the  remainder is available as  rollover or can                                                               
be  fished.   The  charter  operator has  several  means to  make                                                               
determinations on how to value  fish, which were discussed during                                                               
the committee  process.   She heard  criticisms from  the charter                                                               
sector but  she did not agree  with the argument that  the CSP as                                                               
the ICHP as setting the allocation.   She offered her belief that                                                               
ADF&G  will make  projects and  essentially  set the  allocation,                                                               
with  the  IPHC implementing  the  bag  limit through  a  strict,                                                               
somewhat formulaic plan.   She did not view  it as discretionary,                                                               
but acknowledged that the IPHC can set bag limits.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:32:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HANSEN  identified that the  CSP allows for higher  bag limit                                                               
management measures  if the  projection shows  the catch  will be                                                               
under allocation.  She characterized  it as one means of fairness                                                               
built into the  program.  She offered that ADF&G  will get better                                                               
at projections  and management measures  will help  provide tools                                                               
to assist in better precision.   She heard the GHL mentioned as a                                                               
benchmark,  but  the  GHL  represents  the  upper  bound  of  the                                                               
allocation estimated  pre-season.  In  the event that  amount was                                                               
exceeded the council would adjust  the management measures, which                                                               
the court upheld in 2009.  Thus,  it is misleading to say the CSP                                                               
represents  the first  hard allocation.   The  difference between                                                               
this allocation and the GHL  is the CSP uses proactive management                                                               
measures preseason as opposed to  reactive management that lagged                                                               
behind by several years.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:34:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HANSEN  related a  scenario in  which a  commercial fisherman                                                               
was not able to  meet her loan after expenses.   She said that if                                                               
the  commercial fisherman  sells the  quota shares  she will  not                                                               
make enough to pay off the  loan payment.  She offered her belief                                                               
that many quota share holders face the same outcome.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:35:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HANSEN  recalled  Representative  Thompson's  comments  that                                                               
Southeast Alaska may  face an economic disaster.   She agreed and                                                               
said it is  the very reasons to  support the CSP to  take care of                                                               
the Pacific  halibut resource in  the long  term.  She  said that                                                               
having management  measures that  lag three  and four  years does                                                               
not provide a system that errs  on the side conservation and does                                                               
not meet any type of sustainability requirements.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:36:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THOMPSON  disclosed that  he serves as  a board  member for                                                               
the CATCH Project.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JEFF SALZER,  Project Director, on  behalf of the  CATCH Project,                                                               
said the  goal of  the CATCH  Project is  to develop  a long-term                                                               
solution  and  not to  advocate  for  or  against  the CSP.    He                                                               
provided a brief  history of project and  potential solutions for                                                               
the charter fishing sector and  commercial fishing sector issues.                                                               
He related  that the industry needs  stability and predictability                                                               
and  some  nuances  and  views  found  within  the  industry  are                                                               
important.  He reviewed to  a PowerPoint overview provided to the                                                               
committee.   He explained that  the CATCH Project is  a nonprofit                                                               
organization funded  by a National  Fish and  Wildlife Foundation                                                               
Innovation Fund  Grant.   The grant was  written to  research the                                                               
feasibility of  and develop  a pool-catch  share plan  with broad                                                               
based charter fishing sector support.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:39:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SALZER related that the  Alaska Charter Association (ACA) and                                                               
Southeast   Alaska  Guides   Organization  (SEAGO)   applied  for                                                               
fisheries innovation grants for a  similar purpose.  The National                                                               
Fish  and  Wildlife  Foundation organization  suggested  the  two                                                               
groups  collectively work  on the  issues  so the  ACA and  SEAGO                                                               
formed  a nonprofit  and were  awarded  a $205,000  grant and  an                                                               
additional $70,000 in in-kind industry  contributions.  The CATCH                                                               
project seeks  to provide potential solutions  to three problems.                                                               
The  current management  of charter  fishing sector  allocations,                                                               
especially in Area  2C does not necessarily  translate into fish.                                                               
Anglers purchase an  opportunity to fish and  experience all that                                                               
Alaska has to offer  and some of that has been  lost with the 37-                                                               
inch size limit.   He highlighted that the dream  is to catch the                                                               
big  fish.   He acknowledged  arguments that  demand will  always                                                               
exceed allocation  but he indicated  that the  traditional limits                                                               
helped to  generate repeat clientele in  communities that offered                                                               
opportunities for  recreational halibut  fishing.   Secondly, the                                                               
regime  has  not  been  able to  keep  industry  harvests  within                                                               
allocations,  which various  graphs  depicting  Area 2C  harvests                                                               
have shown.   Finally, he concluded  what works for one  does not                                                               
work for all.   Current commercial fisheries  management does not                                                               
meet the  needs of the guided  recreational fleet.  He  said that                                                               
while a  particular regime may effectively  manage the commercial                                                               
fishery the  same regime may not  only be ineffective but  may be                                                               
detrimental when  implemented in the guided  recreational sector.                                                               
He related  a scenario in which  an IFQ holder reaches  its quota                                                               
the commercial fisherman  quits fishing.  When  a charter fishing                                                               
operator's client has booked a  year in advance the operator must                                                               
refund client's  money once they  reach their quota.   He offered                                                               
the CATCH Project's  view that applying catch shares  to a common                                                               
class  of users  rather than  an individual  has never  been done                                                               
before.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:42:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SALZER summarized  shareholders  comments  that the  charter                                                               
fishing sector sells an experience  and opportunity to catch fish                                                               
but it does not  sell fish.  He suggested that  may be the reason                                                               
the charter  IFQ did  not go  through.   The pooled  approach not                                                               
only  addresses supply  but  catch  accountability in  management                                                               
regimes  within the  recreational business  model.   He said  the                                                               
CATCH  Project hopes  to accomplish  this  by creating  nonprofit                                                               
entities that would  purchase IFQ from the  commercial sector and                                                               
hold  in trust  for the  benefit  of all  charter fishing  sector                                                               
operators.   He acknowledged  that the  IFQ exchange  must happen                                                               
between a willing  buyer and seller so this  would compensate the                                                               
commercial  IFQ holder  and  would allow  the  charter sector  to                                                               
create  a buffer  to  stay  within its  allocation.   The  pooled                                                               
approach  could provide  stability  in lieu  of more  restrictive                                                               
management measures  and is a  long-term solution.   He predicted                                                               
that  even if  it were  implemented today  the willing  buyer and                                                               
seller  provisions would  require  patience on  the  part of  the                                                               
guided recreational fleet.  The  traditional number of IFQ pounds                                                               
that would  be needed would not  meet the immediate needs  of the                                                               
industry but  is something  that would  build up  over time.   He                                                               
indicated  that  while it  would  not  likely solve  the  charter                                                               
fishing sector's immediate problems  but the long-term advantages                                                               
would  provide significant  benefits to  the guided  recreational                                                               
fleet.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SALZER provided  the concept  as  three phases.   The  first                                                               
phase would be outreach and  the CATCH Project plans a grassroots                                                               
approach by going to individual  communities to gain knowledge of                                                               
preferred  alternatives  and to  hold  frank  discussions on  the                                                               
issues.   He related he  already spent  21 days in  Southeast and                                                               
Southcentral  Alaska last  month to  solicit input.   Some  ideas                                                               
have   been  previously   discussed,   but   not  under   current                                                               
regulations.    The pooled  approach  as  would not  require  the                                                               
charter  halibut  permit holder  to  become  an  IFQ owner.    He                                                               
reported that  about 90 percent  of phase  one and 15  percent of                                                               
phase two of  the CATCH Project is completed.   The CATCH Project                                                               
will researching alternatives provided  by industry and will hold                                                               
a stakeholder meeting  when the research is  concluded to examine                                                               
options and choose preferred alternatives.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:45:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SALZER related  the organization  will present  its findings                                                               
and preferred alternatives  to the CATCH Project's  board and the                                                               
board will  subsequently make decisions  on how to proceed.   The                                                               
pooled plan  would integrate the recreational  guiding sector and                                                               
commercial  sector without  requiring  ownership  by the  charter                                                               
fishing permit  holder.  The end  user is the person  gaining the                                                               
benefit  of the  fish.   The  preferred  alternatives would  give                                                               
charter fishing  sector stakeholders and regulators  options that                                                               
could meet  the requirements of  the commercial industry  and any                                                               
reallocation would  be voluntary and compensated.   He emphasized                                                               
that  the charter  fishing sector  would  benefit from  increased                                                               
stability and  predictability by  being able  to purchase  a long                                                               
term buffer which  does not require a charter  operator to become                                                               
an IFQ  holder.   He predicted  that the  pooled plan  would also                                                               
benefit regulators  by providing  additional ways  to effectively                                                               
manage the charter  fishing sector harvest that does  not need to                                                               
be revisited every year.  He  also predicted that the pooled plan                                                               
would benefit  the fishery stock, the  commercial fishing sector,                                                               
and the guided recreational anglers.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:47:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN  asked  when the  CATCH  Project  would                                                               
present its findings to the council.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SALZER  answered  that  the  grant  spans  14  months.    He                                                               
anticipated  that the  CATCH Project  would hold  its stakeholder                                                               
meeting  in  October 2011  and  should  have preliminary  results                                                               
published shortly thereafter.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:48:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   AUSTERMAN  asked   whether  the   CATCH  Project                                                               
intended to make this a  trailing amendment before the council on                                                               
the current CSP.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SALZER  answered no.    He  explained  his role  as  project                                                               
director is to research alternatives  and to provide the results.                                                               
He said it  would be up to individual  organizations to determine                                                               
how to use  the information.  He explained that  the scope of the                                                               
grant  is solely  research.   He suggested  that if  the research                                                               
results in feasible  alternatives that some user  groups may want                                                               
to  discuss the  possibility  of presenting  alternatives to  the                                                               
council.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:49:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THOMPSON  reminded everyone that public  comment period has                                                               
been extended  until September  21, 2011  and comments  should be                                                               
sent   to  Glenn   Merrill,  Assistant   Regional  Administrator,                                                               
Sustainable  Fisheries Division,  Alaska Region,  National Marine                                                               
Fisheries  Service,   PO  Box   21668,  Juneau,   Alaska,  99802,                                                               
attention     Ellen      Sebastian,     submit     electronically                                                               
www.regulations.gov, fax  to (907) 586-7557,  or hand  deliver to                                                               
709 W. 9th Street, Room 420A, Juneau, Alaska.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:51:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                              
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Special  Committee on  Fisheries  meeting was  adjourned at  4:51                                                               
p.m.                                                                                                                            

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
IPHC - Charter Halibut Recommendations.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut Catch Sharing Plan
Map of Regulatory Areas 3A and 2C.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut Catch Sharing Plan
Agenda final - 9.1.11.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
DF&G Halibut House Fish CSP hearing 8-31-11.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
NMFS NPFMC Presentation 9.1.11.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
NMFS Press Release re Extension of Public Comment.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
NMFS - Press Release.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut Catch Sharing Plan
NMFS - Proposed Rule for Halibut Catch Sharing Plan.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut Catch Sharing Plan
SEAGO - Memo House Fisheries CSP (3).pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut Catch Sharing Plan
NPFMC - CSP for Sotheast and South Central - June 2011.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
CATCH Project Overview.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
Halibut Coalition 1 HINDCAST CSP vs GHL DAN.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
Halibut Coalition 2C 3A HALIBUT ECONOMIC REPORT April 2007 McDowell.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
Halibut Coalition Economic Analysis for Alaska Halibut Sutinen 1999.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
Halibut Coalition Economic Analysis for Alaska Halibut Sutinen 1999.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
Halibut Coalition Halibut Charter Chronology Timeline from EA Appendix 1UPDATED through 20110812 Includes 2001 IFQ (2).pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
Halibut Coalition Overview of Economic Analysis for Halibut Catch Sharing Plan FINAL 29Aug2011.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
Halibut Coalition to NOAA Recreational Saltwater Fish Summit 12May2010 wth App.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
UFA Testimony Hse Fsheries - Halibut Hearing 090111.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
SEAGO GHL and CSP comparison.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP
Alaska Charter Assoc. - NPFMC Catch Sharing Plan - Fisheries Meeting.pdf HFSH 9/1/2011 1:00:00 PM
Halibut CSP